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[GavJ]

This might even already be implemented in the upcoming release, but it doesn't sound like it. Anyway, it'd be easy to add with that code in place:

In addition to retiring forts and founding forts, just having a button and interace option for "send an expedition" where you get to choose some number of dwarves from your current fort, and then it auto-retires your fort, kicks you to the embark screen, and THOSE exact dwarves then simply become your starting group for a new fort that you immediately start. I'd want to be able to choose any number of dwarves from 1 to however many I have. They are not supplemented by any outside dwarves. This is our expedition, not the mountainhome's.

I don't know about supplies. I guess you could just send whatever you want to bring with you to the trade depot or something, and have the option to bring that stuff in the wagon with you?

This would allow infinitely cooler community forts and stories and character continuity etc. for relatively minimal effort.  I guess it would technically be possible by starting X many separate adventurer games, having them all walk there separately, and retire, then killing all the original founders of the new location, but for obvious reasons, that is less than elegant.

Edit: alternatively,  give the option when you start a fort to choose the specific dwarves you want from your civilization's historical figures pool (not allowed to take royalty, unless they live in a previously player fort). Then proceed as normal. Same basic outcome, even less coding. Not quite as fun, but still very functional.

[Witty]

Well, it's not coming for this release, I can assure you.

I do however like this suggestion. Nice idea, and furthers the eventual goal of being able to rebel against your mother civ if you so please.

[Snaaty]

That idea does sound really interesting, but also kind of scummy.

So, you're getting sieged by a massive army, and you decide to start all over at a nicer place?

That also allows to embark on very dangerous biomes. You start your first fort, train your dwarves to very high skills and embark on that terrifying glacier. 

[Manveru Taurënér]

I don't recall if it's been specifically stated as planned from within fortress mode directly, but there's been talk now and again of starting founding expeditions from adventure mode. So while I'm fairly sure this is planned as well, it'd be possible either way to retire first and then round up some old fortress members and head off to a new site at some far off point whenever that's implemented.

[Sergarr]

I'd accept this feature, but on one condition: you get to manually move the expedition caravan to your destination a-la adventure mode.

Ambushes included.

That would take care of "siege retreat exploit".

[Manveru Taurënér]

I'd accept this feature, but on one condition: you get to manually move the expedition caravan to your destination a-la adventure mode.

Ambushes included.

That would take care of "siege retreat exploit".

How exactly would it be an exploit? If your dwarves actually manage to flee there's no reason they couldn't head off and start a new fortress. Unless you suggest that it would somehow be possible to just open up a menu and swap over to a new fortress no matter the circumstances? I doubt that'll ever happen.

[GavJ]

That idea does sound really interesting, but also kind of scummy.

So, you're getting sieged by a massive army, and you decide to start all over at a nicer place?

That also allows to embark on very dangerous biomes. You start your first fort, train your dwarves to very high skills and embark on that terrifying glacier. 

Yes, why is that scummy? Is there some inherent physical law to the DF universe compelling dwarves NOT to make logical decisions about assigning greater numbers of resources to dangerous places? Or running away from home when it's burning to the ground?

Keep in mind that if a forgotten beast is rampaging through your fort, you will have no ability to gather materials for the journey in time, and thus your new fort will likely have literally nothing, not even a pick. Good luck cashing in on your "exploit" as your dwarves all die probably in a month.

I'd accept this feature, but on one condition: you get to manually move the expedition caravan to your destination a-la adventure mode.

Ambushes included.

That would take care of "siege retreat exploit".

Really not a fan of this. For two reasons:
1) This requires a huge amount more coding. The OP idea really should be like, a few dozen lines of code, since it's really just list manipulation and maybe a couple UI tweaks for the process of assigning dwarves and stuff. This would require thousands of lines of code and tons of bug testing for being able to control wagons all of the sudden in adventure mode, and making highwaymen than make sense, and thieves that try to nick stuff, and he'd have to add companions requiring food and booze, which would then have repercussions for normal adventure mode, blah blah. Which means it takes an extra 4 years to get it, and in the meantime, we don't have all the cool community forts and stories and things this would allow.

2) I don't see why that's a fair requirement anyway. Why should you suffer this handicap for this method of starting a fort, yet NOT suffer this handicap when starting a fort from the mountainhomes? Do bandits just go "Oooooh those undefended dwarves with wagonfulls of invaluable supplies are part of a new game! We can't mess with THEM!"

What would be reasonable is requiring some amount of food and booze per distance traveled from your fort to the new fort, since as the embark "strike the earth" text implies, you are supposed to have started out from the mountain homes with more than you end up with. So some simple formula of 2 booze 1 food per world tile traveled or something would be fair.

[Sergarr]

Presumably you'll actually get that handicap when starting the game in the future versions.

You know, because that's realistic?

[GavJ]

Presumably you'll actually get that handicap when starting the game in the future versions.

You know, because that's realistic?

As a non-default option: sure.

As anything else: Gross.  The subset of people who are going to love fortress mode and also love adventure mode, such that they want to play both of them all the time every time, is likely quite slim. Tolerating the unpreferred game type, sure. But "maybe most people will tolerate this?" is not exactly a very good start to a game feature.

Additionally, why is that realistic? A trek through completely uninhabited wilderness (which it very well might be. Even if history has run for a long time, you could choose a path through wilderness) should not have any bandit attacks. the fact that bandits currently attack you in adv. mode in the middle of an abandoned desert -- that's the unrealistic thing, not the lack of such attacks with regard to fort mode.

At most, I'd endorse a choice, oregon trail-style, of "go balls out and just down the main road, get there faster with less food" versus "take the fastest wilderness route for safety but more supplies used" and if you take the less safe route, you have a chance of losing dwarves or supplies or whatever.

With that, it could be reasonable and still just be a simple menu option for those who just want to play fort mode.


^
Still though, even that is a decent amount extra coding and pathfinding methods and scenario simulation, etc. The goal here is FAST and DOABLE for a high rate of return for the community compared to effort. Fancy epic settler adventure features are a much more long term idea.

[Manveru Taurënér]

I don't think anyone needs to worry about that kind of game-altering changes being imposed on the player without it being optional or having an init setting for it, considering how it's been stressed that things like digging invaders for example will be sure to get one.

[Sergarr]

And the entire point of DF is not to go for the FAST features with a high rate of return.

You seem to miss the point of DF.

[GavJ]

And the entire point of DF is not to go for the FAST features with a high rate of return.

You seem to miss the point of DF.

There's a major difference between "make something quick and efficient then scrap it and overwrite it later on with the properly made version"
VS.
"Make something quick and efficient and then keep it as the default option while you add the optional, more complex version later on that a lot of people aren't going to use anyway, because they don't like adventure mode."

There's nothing at all wrong or undwarfy with the latter option. Toady adds in functional shells of features to flesh out (but not wholly replace) ALL THE TIME.



I would fully expect the feature as described in the OP to persist all the way until release, if implemented. Making it not wasteful or bandaid-ish at all. Later on, you could fill in the option of "send an expedition the exact same way, but then go ahead and control their wagon yourself if you want, instead of using algorithms to simulate losses" without invalidating the original effort or code.

[mross]

And the entire point of DF is not to go for the FAST features with a high rate of return.

You seem to miss the point of DF.

So, you want shitty features, implemented slowly?

Granted, that succintly describes the game's development so far, but I don't see how you've arrived at the conclusion that this is desirable.

[Sergarr]

And the entire point of DF is not to go for the FAST features with a high rate of return.

You seem to miss the point of DF.

So, you want shitty features, implemented slowly?

Granted, that succintly describes the game's development so far, but I don't see how you've arrived at the conclusion that this is desirable.

I live for shitty features

[Dirst]

Getting back to GavJ's original suggestion, the easiest way I can think of sending out an equipped expedition would be to have a building like the Trade Depot (call it a Staging Area).  A handful of pseudo-reactions allow the player to stage three logs and two puller animals to make a Wagon, or stage a handful of pack animals if you feel like traveling the Hippie way.  Transfer ownership of stuff at the Staging Area using the soon-to-be-improved trading interface, and designate a squad to be the ones who embark.  If a Staging Area sounds too gamey, just use the Trade Depot itself.

This depends on a couple other improvements.  First, squads larger than ten would be really, really helpful.  Second, the game needs to be able to pick an embark site and then choose/equip the Dwarves, just like starting a new game.

For color, and game balance, it might be useful to have the embark team actually set out from the Staging Area to the edge of the map.  The player can use Fortress militia to assist that first bit of the journey ("Hey Titan!  Look this way!"), but it should prevent scumming out from under sieges unless an escape tunnel has been constructed.  Once the embarkers leave the map, the parent fort retires.  IIRC, you can't retire a fort under siege, so the player would be forced to abandon instead.