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[Urist McScoopbeard]

I feel like 40k is all about equality.

Geez the lore has changed a lot since I played.

This is Hyperbole. And while it's kind of true, obviously there are holes in the statement.

[sprinkled chariot]

Any ideas on how to beat space wolves on the table.

Dude playing them so far wrecked everything by wulfen, Bjorn, Njal, Ulric the slayer and 3 other infantry squads.
All his tactics are CHAAAAAARGEEE( pretty much classic space wolves yeah)

The only dude winning against this had his night lords just objective camp, while avoiding wolf close combat memery.( relating combat he got nearly wiped first turn)

[Kot]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArmaaadaaaaaaaaaa!


I don't know if I should be happy or mad that they dropped the old one so... soon.

"It will include, at launch, all 12 factions from the original tabletop game and its expansion Armada it is based on: the Imperial Navy, Space Marines, Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons, Chaos, Aeldari Corsairs, Aeldari Craftworld, Drukhari, the T’au Merchant and Protector Fleets, Orks, and finally, the Tyranids."
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Tack]

Uhhhh... cool.

Meanwhile, Thousand Sons got new toys.
I’m not sure I like new toys. Still haven’t bought any Tzaangors or a Magnus (although exalted sorcerers I could get by the handful)

[Loud Whispers]

Unf dat space croissant

[Grim Portent]

Uhhhh... cool.

Meanwhile, Thousand Sons got new toys.
I’m not sure I like new toys. Still haven’t bought any Tzaangors or a Magnus (although exalted sorcerers I could get by the handful)

I've got some of all the 1k Sons models* apart from the tzaangors on discs getting ported over from AoS, though I do have a shaman. I'd say the Tzaangors aren't quite as nice as the actual 1k Sons models, but that's because they try too hard to complement the marines heavy tzeentch aesthetic rather than being their own interpretation.

Ultimately the Tzaangors are nice models, but I think they would have benefitted from more of a feral touch to tie them in with the old fantasy beastmen. They're a bit too warpy and not enough barbariany really, though they do look like something He-Man would punch in the face if his show had a higher budget, which seems to be the design aesthetic for a lot of chaos stuff for AoS. I like them a lot with more natural fleshtones and feather colours, I feel it makes them more horrific to play up the 'this is or was fundamentally human' angle.

The shaman is actually a really nice mini though. Pose is decent, details are great and it doesn't quite tip over the line from being ornate to being busy that a lot of minis are struggling with lately. I plan to pick a second one to try and convert into a foot character sometime, maybe try to mash it together with the bray-shaman mini.


*Including Magnus, who in retrospect I think I would've preferred with all gold armour highlighted with silver rather than the silver with gold and blue detailing I did on him.

[Tack]

I was thinking of doing some fleshtone or blue wash Tzaangors, but their leg plate still gets to me.
I could chop some cultists up and try to kitbash them? Especially if cultists have no stratagems and turn out to be completely useless.

[Grim Portent]

I don't think cultist legs would work very well, they're built with different proportions and poses, so I think the legs would look small and oddly positioned without a looooot of work. Gor/Bestigor legs might work, but the pose would still be off and that's still quite a bit of knife work.

Depending on skin tone you might be able to pass the Tzaangors armour off as banded leather if that'd sit better with you.

What kind of look would you prefer for Gors anyway? Tzeentchy, technobarbarian, animalistic? It should be possible to make them look like a lot of different things with some kitbashing or greenstuff.

[LordPorkins]

I literally just realized that "Tzaangors" are Tzeentchian beastmen.

Beastmen have Ungors, Gors, and Urgors

Tzeentch messes with them and creates "Tzaangors"

Someone please tell me im not the only one where this just slipped by them.

[Grim Portent]

I literally just realized that "Tzaangors" are Tzeentchian beastmen.

Beastmen have Ungors, Gors, and Urgors

Tzeentch messes with them and creates "Tzaangors"

Someone please tell me im not the only one where this just slipped by them.

Urgors aren't a thing to my recollection.

In 40k there's Beastmen (cloven and uncloven), Minotaurs, Tzaangors, Pestigors, Khorngors and Slaangors, with the latter 4 being a matter of what they worship. Uncloven Beastmen are mostly human and used to be allowed in the army, cloven have always been shunned and Minotaurs are basically Beastmen Ogryn.

In Fantasy there's Brays, Ungor, Bovigor, Caprigor and the Caprigor subgroups -> Gor, Bestigor, Shaman, as well as the parralel beings Minotaurs, Cygors and Centigors. Tzaan/Slaan/Pesti/Khorngors are once again a matter of worship and are almost always Caprigors. There are also Tzaanbulls, Slaanbulls etc as marked minotaurs.

Spoiler: elaboration of the fantasy castes (click to show/hide)

Brays are barely beastmen, usually humans with little horn nubs or similar in appearance and who sound like donkeys, hence the name. They're the absolute bottom of the caste system along with human cultists and turnskins.

Ungor are all the various beastmen who aren't proper beastmen but still more bestial than the Brays.
 Horns are usually small and they usually aren't as goatlike as true gors. They rank roughly the same as warhounds if they're lucky. They do most of the crafting because beastmen get worse at making things as you go up in the caste system. This is usually the caste that something like a fox or lizard headed beastman would be in.

Bovigor are bull headed beastmen, but not minotaurs. They occupy a spot between ungor and truegors, being considered lesser than the goat headed gors but greater than the ungor. Occasionally one might rise to power, but generally the herd will view it with such disdain that it won't last long as a leader.

True gors must have goat heads and large horns and are called Caprigors. Among them are the bulk of the proper fighters in the herd. Normal Gors are the majority of their number, with the strongest being Bestigors and the natural claimants of the best gear, food and potential leadership positions. The strongest Bestigors become Wargors and lead herds, with the strongest Wargors controlling multiple smaller herds and becoming a Beastlord. Advancement is done by defeating your superior, not necessarily fairly.

Some Gors are born with an innate connection to Chaos and become Shamans. They are usually Caprigors.

All beastmen grow bigger horns the more they please the dark gods and large horns are considered a natural sign of leadership, but changing caste is basically impossible. An Ungor cannot become a leader over anything but other Ungor and Brays because he is not and never can be a true Gor.



Centigors and Minotaurs are not true Gors but also do not fall under the normal heirarchy simply because it doesn't apply to them. Minotaurs are too stupid and violent to respect any heirarchy based on things other than magical power or brute strength and so only mingle with the other beastmen at the behest of a shaman or when war calls. Centigors are all belligerent, nomadic drunkards even by beastmen standards and live away from the forests becaue they're clumsy and mostly form their own herds because other beastmen would just slow them down.

There's also Gifts, beastmen born from humans and abandoned in the woods as babies. They rank below Caprigors but above Ungors because the shamans consider them to be gifts from the gods, giving them spiritual significance. Their actual appearance varies since they're really just human mutants.

[nenjin]

Beastmen rule. I think they're my favorite race between both fantasy and 40k. I think they get short shrift in 40k since there's so many other badasses around, but in fantasy they shine. And I think their lore is pretty cool.

[Radio Controlled]

Interesting post, added it to the library next to MSH's earlier tome.

(If I ever miss something that might fit in there, shoot me a pm, I don't always fully keep up with the thread))

[LordPorkins]

YEah, your right. I have no idea where "Urgor" came from.

[Grim Portent]

Beastmen rule. I think they're my favorite race between both fantasy and 40k. I think they get short shrift in 40k since there's so many other badasses around, but in fantasy they shine. And I think their lore is pretty cool.

Them and Vampires were tied for my favorites in Fantasy, and in 40k I feel like there's a lot of wasted potential for them and the other Abhumans and more inflitration themed xenos. What happens when genestealers infect abhumans for example?

YEah, your right. I have no idea where "Urgor" came from.

Probably just some kind of mix up with Ungor due to the sound.

[Tack]

I don't think cultist legs would work very well, they're built with different proportions and poses, so I think the legs would look small and oddly positioned without a looooot of work. Gor/Bestigor legs might work, but the pose would still be off and that's still quite a bit of knife work.

Depending on skin tone you might be able to pass the Tzaangors armour off as banded leather if that'd sit better with you.

What kind of look would you prefer for Gors anyway? Tzeentchy, technobarbarian, animalistic? It should be possible to make them look like a lot of different things with some kitbashing or greenstuff.

In a perfect world i’d steal Cultist torso-thighs and stick Tzaangor arms, heads and hooves on them. I would much rather them to have a “ragged robes” look.

Not “Tzeentchy, technobarbarian or animalistic”, but more like beastman cultists.
Impoverished fanatics.

(And then they all have chainswords and Tzaangor blades which are super pretty anyway so hey)