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[Urist McScoopbeard]

I feel like 40k is all about equality.

[Egan_BW]

Except for the space marines, for reasons!

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Except for the space marines, for reasons!

THEY ARE STILL HUMAN [insert rambling denial of divinity here]

[EnigmaticHat]

I feel like 40k is all about equality.

Geez the lore has changed a lot since I played.

[Egan_BW]

All normal humans are equally worthless, because it would be too much paperwork to differentiate between them in any way whatsoever.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Everyone's a heretic to SOMEONE.

[ArchAIngel]

DAMNIT WRONG THREAD

[Kot]

I feel like 40k is all about equality.

Geez the lore has changed a lot since I played.

In many ways it is, though. There is not much difference in terms of race or gender when it comes to possibilities*, although vast social status differences exist, there are also multiple meritocratic ways of getting out of the low end, even if they basically require you to achieve nearly impossible goals, and at the end of day everyone gets shat on equally.

*Equality shouldn't mean that everyone is the same and such "sameness" is forced upon everyone despite it being stupid, and that is also very true in storytelling. The fact that Adepta Sororitas and Adeptus Astrates are two vastly different organizations with nearly the same purpose, each gender-eclusive only makes it better - a man can't be a woman, no matter how much surgery and therapy he goes through, because at the end of day he is, genetically, a man, and trying to prove that both genders are the same is counterproductive and harmful, because that is simply not true, and the examples of Space Marines and Adepta Sororitas prove that despite that we can all strive to murder xenos, heretics and mutants for the Emperor by focusing on our strong sides and compliment each other in beautiful cooperation for the betterment of Mankind and doom of anything that stands in it's way.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

[manly tears] Emperor bless the Imperium.

[EnigmaticHat]

Those are all very abstract responses.  What I mean is if you listen to the way the lore describes civilian life in W40K, particularly on Holy Terra, the imperium runs on a caste system.  They don't call it a caste system and the specifics vary by world, but its clearly a caste system.  Everyone is born into their role for life, with a few exceptions (usually involving military advancement, the death of a superior, or first officially joining the empire in some capacity).

The only "equality" in the system is that to anyone high up enough to warrant being transported in a spaceship, the landlubbers are so beneath their notice as to not count for anything.  With the exception of the imperial guard.  But yeah, ever serf has a job position they're born into and they could tell you exactly which serfs are higher up and which serfs are lower down.  The hive worlds are the exception, with a Judge Dredd-esque breakdown of order due to population.  But even then, being part of the system (AKA serving the imperial bureaucracy) puts you above everyone who isn't, even if you're cleaning the toilets.

Saying everyone in the imperium is equal is like saying "the people of westeros may kill each all the time, but at least everyone is an aristocrat."  Sure... the POV characters.

There is a sort of equality among the higher ranks of the imperium... in the sense that the upper echelons of the bureaucracy are in a state of anarchy and collapsing in slow motion.  Basically all imperial civil wars come down to two facts:

1.  Within a given imperial hierarchy, be it the most glorious space marine chapter or the the administratium janitorium on backwaterius 9, orders filter down the chain of command with absolute authority.  If your space marine commander tells you the imperial garrison on this planet are traitors, welp.  Guess you're killing some guardsmen today.
2.  Between the different branches, there is no concept of ranking AND there is no concept of absolute jurisdiction.  Real life bureaucracies are designed so that for each problem there's only one agency responsible for solving it.  The imperium on the other hand is designed to produce maximum overlap between the jurisdictions of both the different branches and the departments/military units within.

So yeah, a bunch of different ultra-powerful, armed to the teeth fanatics told that they can't directly give each other orders, given overlapping jurisdictions, and told that the final decider should they come into conflict is the "Emporer's will."  I guess that's equality, from a certain perspective...

[Loud Whispers]

The Bureaucrats and Mechanicus both offer advancement based on merit independent of valorious service in warfare or your superiors all perishing

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Again, "When the hyperbole is taken literally"

[Kot]

Those are all very abstract responses.  What I mean is if you listen to the way the lore describes civilian life in W40K, particularly on Holy Terra, the imperium runs on a caste system.  They don't call it a caste system and the specifics vary by world, but its clearly a caste system.  Everyone is born into their role for life, with a few exceptions (usually involving military advancement, the death of a superior, or first officially joining the empire in some capacity).

At no point I was wrong. Imperium allows you to change your role in life, even if it's pretty hard to do. The simplest example would be joining Imperial Guard.

The only "equality" in the system is that to anyone high up enough to warrant being transported in a spaceship, the landlubbers are so beneath their notice as to not count for anything.  With the exception of the imperial guard.  But yeah, ever serf has a job position they're born into and they could tell you exactly which serfs are higher up and which serfs are lower down.  The hive worlds are the exception, with a Judge Dredd-esque breakdown of order due to population.  But even then, being part of the system (AKA serving the imperial bureaucracy) puts you above everyone who isn't, even if you're cleaning the toilets.

Do something then, join Imperial Guard, join a gang and become attractive to potential Space Marine recruiters, etc. Imperium allows you to do that.

Saying everyone in the imperium is equal is like saying "the people of westeros may kill each all the time, but at least everyone is an aristocrat."  Sure... the POV characters.

Not really. Imperium as a faction is very much a meritocracy instead of plutocracy, it's the local governments that create social inequality. Even a serf can be an Inquisitor, if he tries hard enough.

There is a sort of equality among the higher ranks of the imperium... in the sense that the upper echelons of the bureaucracy are in a state of anarchy and collapsing in slow motion.  Basically all imperial civil wars come down to two facts:

1.  Within a given imperial hierarchy, be it the most glorious space marine chapter or the the administratium janitorium on backwaterius 9, orders filter down the chain of command with absolute authority.  If your space marine commander tells you the imperial garrison on this planet are traitors, welp.  Guess you're killing some guardsmen today.
2.  Between the different branches, there is no concept of ranking AND there is no concept of absolute jurisdiction.  Real life bureaucracies are designed so that for each problem there's only one agency responsible for solving it.  The imperium on the other hand is designed to produce maximum overlap between the jurisdictions of both the different branches and the departments/military units within.

So yeah, a bunch of different ultra-powerful, armed to the teeth fanatics told that they can't directly give each other orders, given overlapping jurisdictions, and told that the final decider should they come into conflict is the "Emporer's will."  I guess that's equality, from a certain perspective...

That is balantly false. Various branches of Imperium are designed to be responsible for one thing specifically so that none of them is actually more capable than the other, which prevents another Horus Heresy. The Imperial civil wars happen because one faction tried to take over more power than it should have, resulting in a backlash that brings it back into balance.

[EnigmaticHat]

The Bureaucrats and Mechanicus both offer advancement based on merit independent of valorious service in warfare or your superiors all perishing

...so like actual countries with caste systems then?

Again, "When the hyperbole is taken literally"

That's not what hyperbole means.  Hyperbole is exaggeration.  If I got paid $20 for dogsitting and I was like "yay, I have billion dollars" that would be hyperbole, because it is true that I have money but the amount has been increased beyond reality.  If, on the other hand, I were to say "damn, you just talk a billion dollars away from me," that would not be hyperbole, because no money was taken at all.  In fact the opposite is what happened.

If what you meant was the opposite of what you said, then "irony," "sarcasm," or "joke" could replace hyperbole.  If you meant what you said, then neither irony, nor hyperbole (since hyperbole is a form of irony) would be accurate.  If you meant what you said, but only a little ("the empire isn't equal by normal definitions but in this one specific way it is"), then the word would be "wrong," which is not a form of irony at all.

Not that I can tell what you meant, because there's more than one way to interpret your post.  Maybe instead of trying to hold your knowledge of English over my head you could just clarify what you meant?

[Loud Whispers]

The Bureaucrats and Mechanicus both offer advancement based on merit independent of valorious service in warfare or your superiors all perishing

...so like actual countries with caste systems then?

With greater scale and exxxxtreme to the max