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[Grim Portent]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/a-new-breed-of-hero-may15gw-homepage-post-1/

Guilliman's new marines have been revealed and... they're basically just marines.

The armour looks to be based on Mk 2, 4 and 7 power armours, which is hardly a bad thing, they're all pretty nice looking variants.

They have a slightly bigger than normal bolter, with slightly better stats.

They look a little bit better proportioned than the older models.

They will be derived from all the loyalist legions, which is a nice thing to know, it won't just be Ultramarines with the shiny stuff.

So far that seems to be about it.

[nenjin]

Slightly bigger bolter? That thing is YUGE.

[Tack]

Once again conflicted. I dislike everything they represent and think they've kind of jumped the shark from a writing standpoint, and yet the models are pretty undeniably gorgeous.
They're some cool looking space marines, and from a modelling standpoint they're basically everything GW wanted to do, but didn't have the tech or playerbase to pull off- that being beautiful multimark truescale dudes.

[pisskop]

Stick to the jumped shark.

The way I feel about any series is thus:

- I like loved Halo: CE.  Halo 1 was kick ass, a great release title, and more importantly, I was fucking awesome at it.  In an age just before the advent of online gaming, I was the king of the cafeteria tourneys.  Story was good, within reason, and made logical sensicals.  No over the top villany or heroism.
    Halo 2 I liked.  It was a bit more over the top, and I really disliked them taking away some of my favorite parts of H:CE, such as stunlocking plasma rifles, the power of the plasma pistol, pistol scope, and assault rifle, but overall it was a bit more balanced if not easier in SP.  The story was about standard fare for a sci-fi game, but made enough sense and had enough feel to get me to appreciate it.
  Halo 3 I .... played, but by then I was sick of the series.  Flood has new forms, everything is so fucking over-the-top, and the escalation of power has moved to the point where why do I even bother playing?  Theyre just going to hold my balls while I pee anyway.  Story was less adequate; merely mediocre, and the powerups have become literal invincibility for you.  Fucking mario game.


Other series do this too, but I really tend to drift away from a franchise as it matures from 'exactly the level of plot I want' and usually good mechanics that make the player appreciate his limitations to 'fukheug power' and feeling like superman.


Look at Doom3 compared to the newset doom; thats one example.  I liked D3.  I didnt think it was the best game ever in the universe, but I liked its challenge for what it put out.  I liked feeling limited and pitted against a vast horde of deadly enemies, and I like how they did nightmare mode.  In superhard mode your health was drained until it hit a max of 25.  Essentially 75% of your max health was replaced by overcharge health.  In D3:2 they fucked it up by making you face increasingly escalating difficulty and turned it into a bit of a grind, but in the sequels they made it even worse by removing the limitations of the new DoomGuy and making him more like SPACE RAMBO.


Jumping the Shark is when the world gets 'surreal, even for fiction and sci-fi' and when the protags are so noble they fart helium.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

They could have been waaay cooler.

[Telgin]

I'm so out of the loop and trying to resist the urge to get back into 40K.  The new rules sound really nice overall, but I don't even know what's going on in the fluff anymore.  I stopped playing just before the necrons got changed from a faceless army of terminators into something with personality and before the rules devolved into Apocalypse 40K.

It sounds like the rules are probably improving, but I'm worried about the fluff.  Not the stuff about necrons, which is ancient by now anyway (ancient necron joke unintended), but... yeah, we have super space marines now?  And Roboute Guilliman has a stat line?  I need to go read and get caught up, but I'm a little concerned about what I may find.

[Grim Portent]

I'm so out of the loop and trying to resist the urge to get back into 40K.  The new rules sound really nice overall, but I don't even know what's going on in the fluff anymore.  I stopped playing just before the necrons got changed from a faceless army of terminators into something with personality and before the rules devolved into Apocalypse 40K.

It sounds like the rules are probably improving, but I'm worried about the fluff.  Not the stuff about necrons, which is ancient by now anyway (ancient necron joke unintended), but... yeah, we have super space marines now?  And Roboute Guilliman has a stat line?  I need to go read and get caught up, but I'm a little concerned about what I may find.

The fluff's basically hit the culmination of a few long running plots. Ynnead's been born, Guilliman's long hinted return has happened, the Mechanicus have finally succeeded in one of their many attempts to improve on marines, the 13th Black Crusade is underway and has destroyed Cadia, Magnus has more or less gotten his revenge on the Space Wolves and the 13th Great Company returned. Plus a few smaller things like Warsmith Shontu's plotline being finished.

Quality of the writing is iffy as always, but some of it's been pretty good, some of it's been terrible. Standard for games really.



EDIT:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Guillimarine stats. They have 1 more wound and attack than normal ones, otherwise the same but without weapon options. So they're a beefed up old Legion Tactical Squad, completely reliant on the basic gun.

[nenjin]

In D3:2 they fucked it up by making you face increasingly escalating difficulty and turned it into a bit of a grind, but in the sequels they made it even worse by removing the limitations of the new DoomGuy and making him more like SPACE RAMBO.

This is ironic for me because I just bought NuDOOM last night on sale. I enjoyed D3 but poo-poo'd it at the time for the obsession with lighting and story rather than gameplay. I wasn't hyped for NuDOOM either.

Now that I'm playing NuDOOM....yeah, suddenly I'm missing D3's tension and difficulty, feeling mortal rather than like I'm a Turbo-Charged Space Marine. NuDOOM is slick and polished and flowing and all that jazz....but it feels vaguely masturbatory. I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty and other than a couple deaths due to the learning curve the game feels.....easy as fuck? Health and ammo everywhere, enemies can't really hurt you if you keep moving, the executions create that kind of spastic gameplay I hate because "oh the guy is flashing, mash the button." I mean...they give you a grenade launcher essentially in the first level. I feel so OP right now I've done half my killing with the basic pistol, and that almost feels too easy.

I get why people liked NuDOOM after D3 but it all somehow feels very trivial. Even the movement reminds me of a MP Arena FPS, it's so slick and greasy and lacks all the touches that give movement heft and weight.

[GiglameshDespair]

In D3:2 they fucked it up by making you face increasingly escalating difficulty and turned it into a bit of a grind, but in the sequels they made it even worse by removing the limitations of the new DoomGuy and making him more like SPACE RAMBO.

This is ironic for me because I just bought NuDOOM last night on sale. I enjoyed D3 but poo-poo'd it at the time for the obsession with lighting and story rather than gameplay. I wasn't hyped for NuDOOM either.

Now that I'm playing NuDOOM....yeah, suddenly I'm missing D3's tension and difficulty, feeling mortal rather than like I'm a Turbo-Charged Space Marine. NuDOOM is slick and polished and flowing and all that jazz....but it feels vaguely masturbatory. I'm playing on Hurt Me Plenty and other than a couple deaths due to the learning curve the game feels.....easy as fuck? Health and ammo everywhere, enemies can't really hurt you if you keep moving, the executions create that kind of spastic gameplay I hate because "oh the guy is flashing, mash the button." I mean...they give you a grenade launcher essentially in the first level. I feel so OP right now I've done half my killing with the basic pistol, and that almost feels too easy.

I get why people liked NuDOOM after D3 but it all somehow feels very trivial. Even the movement reminds me of a MP Arena FPS, it's so slick and greasy and lacks all the touches that give movement heft and weight.

I hat to start the obvious, but have you tried turning the difficulty up, if it's too easy?

[nenjin]

HMP is where difficulty is "supposed" to be at for the average game experience, according to the game itself. And I like playing what the developers envision as the essential difficulty before piling other stuff on.

And really, more enemies, them doing more damage and having more health doesn't really change the overall experience. D3 was actually pretty challenging at the basic level because of all the different factors: lighting, area design, aiming, all that jazz. It played like a realism shooter. NuDOOM, with your permasprint, climbing, double jumping, grenades on a cooldown timer, no reloads......it's just a game designed to make the killing as easy as possible. It handles like an arena shooter and upping the difficulty won't really change that. It handles (and kinda looks sometimes) like Overwatch. Grossly slick.

[sprinkled chariot]

Primaris spess muhreens  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYGrIBpE2PI&feature=youtu.be&a=

[MrRoboto75]

Doom3guy was in hell all along, a nefarious alternate dimension where duct tape was never invented, and a world of terrible shotguns.

[GiglameshDespair]

Well, it's up to you, but it seems kind of silly to complain it's too easy and refuse to turn the difficulty up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'd argue that it does change the experience, because, it's, well, harder. You have to play better and more strategically if you want to win.

But to be honest thank fuck NuDoom isn't like Doom 3. D3 had, as much as I hate the term, artificial difficulty with being able to hold the light or a gun. It was awkward and stupid, and the entire game was just kind of dull, with constant monster closets and unsatisfying weapons.

Yeah, the new Doom plays a lot smoother and faster. That's kind of the point, really. Doom has always been about being a lone badass ripping and tearing his way through the legions of hell.

[pisskop]

People really hated this one feature that dramatically enhanced the atmosphere of the game, enh?
    And you learned quickly to play around this limitation.

nobody ever argued the easy-to-circumvent nature of that design choice, however Im always disappointed at how people refused to see why that choice was made.

[Radio Controlled]

I might be in a minority here, but I would've been more interested in seeing Rowboat Girlyman employ his famous skills in organisation and strategy instead of space marines 2.0. Of course this wouldn't exactly sell a lot of new minis and rake in that sweet dosh, and writing it well would be hard and require effort, but still. Or maybe give us guardsmen 2.0 instead, these are still basically the tried and true spes smahreens at the end of the day.

Also, maybe take the Doom discussion to the game thread guys?