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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: [loading grimdark, please wait]  (Read 1050903 times)

Tack

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6855 on: October 04, 2016, 08:15:50 am »

I think there is X number of rogue traders that can exist, and if you have a RT license you're able to get a new one 'cos it's a proof o' death mebe.
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TempAcc

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6856 on: October 04, 2016, 08:31:11 am »

Ye, being a rogue trader essentialy gives you the closest thing to true freedom in the imperium (essentialy a "go out there and trade/rob xenos dweebs and sell us their stuff" permit), and apparently getting a license is incredibly hard, so it makes sense that there would be people hunting for dead RT licenses if they're able to get their own license with that.
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Neonivek

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6857 on: October 04, 2016, 08:38:50 am »

Ye, being a rogue trader essentialy gives you the closest thing to true freedom in the imperium (essentialy a "go out there and trade/rob xenos dweebs and sell us their stuff" permit), and apparently getting a license is incredibly hard, so it makes sense that there would be people hunting for dead RT licenses if they're able to get their own license with that.

Not that you really NEED to... you just need to wear a main character crest.

Though they don't really give those out in premium anymore... so yeah perhaps it is better you go for the Rogue Trader license.

----

PSH! I am acting like Warhammer 40k is particularly bad with this... When really they are one of the better ones.

I mean I can either jump into Battletech where they mass murder main characters between books (sort of)... OR I can jump into Dungeons and Dragons where Elminster and Drizzt should honestly just die! (basically opposites)

At least... to my knowledge... for all I know Warhammer 40k does both killing off characters pointlessly once they serve no point (>_>) and keeping others around far FAR FAAAAR after their presence has become disruptive mary sueish... I am no where close to being that knowledgeable.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 08:44:54 am by Neonivek »
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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6858 on: October 04, 2016, 08:52:02 am »

The Warrants of Trade are hereditary. Getting one as an unrelated person doesn't really mean you're now Rogue Trader, but there is almost certainly some dude who is willing to pay some money for license of his Father/Uncle/Whoever.
Bonus points if you're related yourself so you can get it for yourself.

I think there is X number of rogue traders that can exist, and if you have a RT license you're able to get a new one 'cos it's a proof o' death mebe.
Not really, though they are truly quite rare because the only people that can grant them are High Lords of Terra, and their depiction in TTS is pretty accurate. It should be noted that the Warrants themselves CAN be quite fucking important, as some of them are signed by Emperor himself. Surely, even if you didin't want the Warrant for the privileges it grants, you would totally want it for the signature of the Big E himself.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6859 on: October 04, 2016, 09:08:31 am »

I saw a really cool concept for a Warrant of Trade on /tg/ once: A huge back tattoo skinned off the old owner and sewn to the new.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6860 on: October 04, 2016, 10:59:16 am »

*snip*

Cry moar Crylal, no one is listening.

Chaos actually used to make less sense than it does now. It was an eclectic and inconsistently written mish-mash of random crap basically all of which was insane in one way or another. Daemons and humans and aliens living together in weird nonsensical societies based on the sort of stuff that the gods were meant to dislike, such as a Khorneate world upon which the warlords indulged in non-violent politics and bickering rather than actually going out and fighting the way that Khorneates are supposed to.

Now Chaos is basically a loose assemblage of warlords of various kinds. Some are akin to Ghengis Khan and his Mongols, raiding their way across the void taking what they can carry, others are like Rome, forming large empires that possess a semblence of law based on might makes right and punish those who disrupt the goals of the warlord in charge or threaten the industries needed to fuel their conquests, others are theocracies ruled by councils of priest lords who mandate all production goes towards maintaining the group as a whole so they can build edifices to glorify chaos in the hopes of drawing the gods attention to the rulers.

The gods are similar, but they've barely changed with the exception of Khorne, for the most part it's just that the focus on them has shifted towards the parts of them that encourage conflict with other factions. Nurgle is still a fertility god at his core, Slaanesh is still the god of inspiration and perfectionism, Tzeentch still supports those who seek change for good reasons. Khorne's more or less lost his 'don't hurt the weak or I will punish you' thing, which was a rather stupid sentiment for a god of bloodshed and hate, so now it's 'I won't reward you for killing the weak, but feel free to do it anyway.'

This is when Chaos used to be weird, and fun, and actually science fiction. Sure it didn't always make sense but it was free to do what it wanted. Sort of how like Orks used to be fun and goofy and capable of lot more flexibility in their lore than they are now. Now they're just typecast as cockney thugs of the universe.

Today's Chaos is hidebound by marketing and metrics. It's grim dank violence and horror shows and little more. And to be honest, I found older Chaos creepier when it attempted to be so. I still like today's Chaos but it's old and tired and has barely ever distinguished itself from Fantasy other than the Heresy storyline. It's been carrying the setting for the last 20+ years and little has changed (other than some little bitch named Malal.)

And to be honest, reading the Realms of Chaos books, the writing is more interesting too. It's way fuller of possibilities. Yeah the writers of the time were probably high as fuck and borrowing from anything and everything they'd read or been exposed to. But Chaos actually felt fleshed out back then. Now it's just an excuse for murder, chains, skulls and spikes and that's pretty damn disappointing knowing where it came from. For something that is supposed to be everchanging and mutable, Chaos has been in rut for fucking years. To the point where shit like "The Red Angel" from the Horus Heresy comes off as trite and boring, at best. GWS's answer for how to make Chaos more engaging was to give daemons monologues and soliloquies and shit. Despite how fuck stupid it all reads when you have daemons going "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO." Hence my displeasure with a lot of Slaanesh writing, because they seem to get it the worst. But it's true for all daemons of all stripes at some point in current fiction.

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Warrants of Trade

These are given out to exceptional people in the Imperium. Generals, Powerful Governors, war heros. Often they're given out as a reward but also just as often they're given out to take a person out of the Imperial power structure.

Quote
Not really, though they are truly quite rare because the only people that can grant them are High Lords of Terra, and their depiction in TTS is pretty accurate.

There's actually different levels of Warrants of Trade, with different limitations on them and exceptions in place. Obviously the most powerful and far-reaching are the ones issued by the Emperor, then the ones issued by the High Lords. But I think sector Governors can also issue a more limited form of the Warrant of Trade as well. I know for a fact they can grant licenses to Chartist Captains.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 11:04:04 am by nenjin »
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6861 on: October 04, 2016, 11:06:18 am »

In terms of authority, it's more or less:

-Warrant of Trade (issued by the Emperor)
-Warrant of Trade (issued by the High Lords)
-Letter of Marque
-Hereditary Free Charter
-Hereditary Charter
-Free Charter
-Fleet Charter
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Taricus

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6862 on: October 04, 2016, 11:30:35 am »

It doesn't have to be a high lord of terra signing the warrant of trade, the governor of a sub-sector or the like could grant a full-fledged warrant.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6863 on: October 04, 2016, 11:44:19 am »

It doesn't have to be a high lord of terra signing the warrant of trade, the governor of a sub-sector or the like could grant a full-fledged warrant.

I researched this for my Rogue Trader game and I'm not sure they can. They can grant charters for their own sectors and what not, but I don't think a sector governor has the authority to grant a Warrant of Trade for the entire galaxy.

It's much more likely that they refer someone to the High Lords and Administatum for that kind of honor.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6864 on: October 04, 2016, 11:46:30 am »

Being that in the grim darkness of the far future there is only DECENTRALIZATION and STALEMATE, you probably see as many technically illegal Warrants as you do legit ones. Nobody is actually capable of fully comprehending how all the deviations from the party line work.
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Grim Portent

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6865 on: October 04, 2016, 12:00:49 pm »

The Warrants of Trade usually don't matter a whole lot anyway, as local authorities and private citizens are prone to bending the rules anyway since oversight is so infrequent. They only really matter for things of sufficient importance or scale that a clandestine civil war is likely to break out anyway.

The likelihood of the High Lords, Arbites or Inquisition ever following up on a 'fake' Rogue Trader is rather small unless they get involved in truly dangerous stuff. Selling Splinter Rifles to gangers or a Governor is basically irrelevant to the authorities sanctioned or not, as is selling gangers for Splinter Rifles.  :P

Frequently if you aren't doing something stupid like selling Psychneuin to cultists or similar or aren't unlucky enough to blunder into the path of someone chasing down someone who actually matters (such as someone selling Psychneuin) who decides to punish you on their way past, you can get away with a lot of stuff that's illegal in the Imperium.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6866 on: October 04, 2016, 12:08:55 pm »

Being that in the grim darkness of the far future there is only DECENTRALIZATION and STALEMATE, you probably see as many technically illegal Warrants as you do legit ones. Nobody is actually capable of fully comprehending how all the deviations from the party line work.

Actually features in a couple 40k Stores. The Priests of Mars, Lords of Mars, etc...series is one. Fake Rogue Traders do get caught out from time to time.
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Kot

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6867 on: October 04, 2016, 12:21:54 pm »

Quote
Not really, though they are truly quite rare because the only people that can grant them are High Lords of Terra, and their depiction in TTS is pretty accurate.

There's actually different levels of Warrants of Trade, with different limitations on them and exceptions in place. Obviously the most powerful and far-reaching are the ones issued by the Emperor, then the ones issued by the High Lords. But I think sector Governors can also issue a more limited form of the Warrant of Trade as well. I know for a fact they can grant licenses to Chartist Captains.
...not really, actually. Warrants of Trade are quite very much said to be "FUCK YOU" papers, quite similar to the Inquisitorial Rosettes. Obviously, practically proably people would be more likely to listen to a dude with a paper signed by Big E himself rather than some Primarch (they gave out those too) or High Lord of Terra, but technically all of those are on the same level and there are no limitations except few conditions (visit that-and-that world, colonize, spend majority of time outside Imperial space etc.) but those are specified in the document itself and vary from Warrant to Warrant. There are few ways to lose it (though they all are basically "actively working against the Imperium"), but really, if you have one you're set for life.

Letters of Marque are the ones that you could proably get from Sector Governor - they're usually limited to a said sector or, if they were issued by High Lords of Terra, by some other limitation. Those are also usually not hereditary.

Charters are different because they don't really give you the possibilities of Rogue Trader, those are just papers that allow you to ship shit around with your designated ship and get cash. The Free Charters are nicer because they allow you to do fuck-all (including getting battleships, if you can) as long as you trade, but you still don't have shit on Rogue Traders.

The Warrants of Trade usually don't matter a whole lot anyway, as local authorities and private citizens are prone to bending the rules anyway since oversight is so infrequent. They only really matter for things of sufficient importance or scale that a clandestine civil war is likely to break out anyway.
I assure you that fake Rogue Traders, if somehow discovered (not that they are usually actively pursued, but then barely anyone has balls to do it) would be hunted down like crazy. Impersonating Rogue Trader is literally as bad as impersonating an Inquisitor.
Also, I assure you that without proper papers and shit you're as good as dead in space. Imperial Navy captains are really fucking bent on proving themselves while also not getting died, so if you start to fly around without proper permission and sell stuff/do whatever, you will stumble upon some frigate or even some sector defense forces sooner or later and if you don't prove you're good then GIT REKT SKRUB YOU JUST PROVIDED ME A PROMOTION. Space travel in Wh40k is elitist as fuck.
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spazyak

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6868 on: October 04, 2016, 12:22:42 pm »

Lord of the mars, watch as a lowly tech priest must carry the great burden of a mars to the sol-cano topurge the dark techeresy.
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nenjin

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Re: WH40K thread: wait, 40K has religious overtones?! THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
« Reply #6869 on: October 04, 2016, 12:24:13 pm »

Quote
I assure you that fake Rogue Traders, if somehow discovered (not that they are usually actively pursued, but then barely anyone has balls to do it) would be hunted down like crazy. Impersonating Rogue Trader is literally as bad as impersonating an Inquisitor.

Except, not. Not even close. One is authorized by the Emperor. The other is a direct representative of his authority. One is bad. The other is far worse.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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