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[Kot]

Size of space marine chapter=1000 battle-brothers, approximately 1000 chapters are believed to exist at any one time

The first figure is bullshit, the second one a bit less so but also not very trustworthy. The number of marines is really not consistent, they die and get replaced all the time and chapters other than Ultramarines usually don't pay that much attention to Codex to go 1000 all the time. Black Templars run at few thousands all the time because simply they are so spread out and they give exactly zero fucks about Codex Astartes. The main argument for the 1,000,000 figure is that it all balances itself because some chapters also have much smaller number of marines due to Ork Snipers or whatever chucklefuckery they got themselves into, but honestly, there is proably much more than 1000 chapters, IIRC even the official estimates are at about 1350 chapters.

Also, honestly, it's not like GW writers give a fuck, if Matt Ward was still with us he would make Cato Sicarius pull few billion Ultrasmurfs out of ass and then solve all the Imperium problems forever, so Marines are more like constant nearly-infinite force.

As for the Great Crusade, iirc if you add up the values from various books you end up with like 2,500,000 Marines (That's the optimist number, but it still should be at least 2,000,000. Ultramarines had about 250,000, which is implied to include marines from the 2 missing Legions, Thousand Sons seem to be only ones with only 10,000 Marines... so yep, early days of Great Crusade is your only option to see such numbers of Marines working together). I don't know the exact numbers, but I'd say that at the end of Crusade about 500,000 would remain on Loyalist side. This number would be brought back to 1,000,000 during second and maybe few subsequent foundings. And then, there was 26 foundings and even considering constant losses and attrition, there should be way more than 1,000,000 Marines in Galaxy but very thinly spread out, with Eye of Terror encirclement being the place where you'd find most of them, but proably about 50,000 at best. Astartes Praeses had only 18 chapters, after all.

EDIT:

I'm gonna need some citation from a source on that.

Ultrasmurfs. Really just look here. The other, shittier wiki, also goes with these numbers and maybe has some more sources.

[NullForceOmega]

I've got the damned books not more than twenty feet from me kot.  I asked for citation, if you have a verifiable source put it up.

On a personal note, you could really stand to check your posts for tone, the one you just put up seems to be trying to be insulting.  Whether that was your goal or not I have no clue, but it definitely came off as abrasive.

Okay, source checks out.

[Kot]

I've got the damned books not more than twenty feet from me kot.  I asked for citation, if you have a verifiable source put it up.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I wrote the post before you asked for sources so I had to edit that in.

On a personal note, you could really stand to check your posts for tone, the one you just put up seems to be trying to be insulting.

To who? Like, actually, did I come off as insulting to you or just generally insulting or maybe insulting to GW or insulting everyones existence?

[NullForceOmega]

The opening line "The first figure is bullshit, the second less so but also not very trustworthy."  Could be easily taken as personally insulting.  I'm glad I re-read for clear comprehension before responding.

The rest is fairly clear, but very curt, combined with the opener it looks much like you are being dismissive and/or intentionally aggravating.

[Kot]

TBH I am kinda dissmisive as I know muh lore and personally I am a bit annoyed with people saying that there are precisely 1,000,000 marines because Codex Astartes says so. I just really hate taking it as granted because of the Matt Ward "Ultramarines best marines, everyone wants to be Ultramarines and follow Codex perfectly" insane delusions.

[NullForceOmega]

I didn't say 'precisely' I said 'approximately'.  The two concepts are not alike.

I'm not a walking lexicanum, but I've been a player since '98, so I do in fact have some knowledge of the lore (whether I care or not, it's impossible to be involved in something and not pick up information.)  I just haven't been interested enough in the past six years to try to keep up with GWs crap.

[spazyak]

Let's just leave it at this-GW Please get your shit together or something.

[Kot]

The part I'm annoyed with, the "1000 Marines in each Chapter", didin't have approximately (though I admit I wrote 1,000,000 in previous post but shhshshhs) next to it. The approximate number of 1,000,000 I could accept, as we don't actually know how many Chapters there are, but that's only due to insane variation between each Chapter strenght, not because of 1000 x ~1000 = ~1,000,000.
As for walking Lexicanum... well, that's why we have Lexicanum, right?

Let's just leave it at this-GW Please get your shit together or something.

Well, there is no Matt Ward there anymore, so...

[LordBaal]

In this case Kot is right, however Null is not wrong either. It used to be a time, when the galaxy was smaller and nicer, kids where respectful and such, where GW was content with having 1000 SM chapters with roughly 1000 marines in them.

However Warhammer lore is insanely chaotic, like if writen by Tzeentch itself as is beaten to death by Khorne while being fucked by Slaanesh. And it had changed a lot over the years.

Now they are moving on to exploit the Horus Heresy they are trying to put up more believable numbers or something.

[Tack]

Eh. Kot's mildly annoying as a standard when it comes to 40k. I just roll with it.

However, as resident Thousand Sons fanboy, there's a reason they were called the Thousand.
I believe they were accidentally culled to 1000 at founding, then again with the first wave of mutations.
Then again reduced to 1k after the burning of prospero.
They were never really at legion strength.


I am curious about the Wolves, though.
I mean so iirc the Iron hands are non-codex compliant. They have seven great clans each with almost a chapter's worth of people, right?
The Space wolves I thought were also on the "fuck you, guilliman" boat with their five great companies (or probably wolf companies now fffjd).
But the other day I noticed a Space Wolf successor chapter. Wtf?

[Kot]

Eh. Kot's mildly annoying as a standard when it comes to 40k. I just roll with it.

I'm apparently mildly annoying all the time. ATM I also just roll with it because honestly I am proably a sociopath who lacks empathy thus I don't really see myself as being annoying beforehand, and after that it's too late. Either that or I'm some kind of Blank.

However, as resident Thousand Sons fanboy, there's a reason they were called the Thousand.
I believe they were accidentally culled to 1000 at founding, then again with the first wave of mutations.

IIRC the number at start of the Great Crusade is 10,000, noticeably less than everyone else.

[nenjin]

You just come off as a little too intense when talking about 40k. Might have to do with all the swearing you add in. Some people interpret that as being directed at them.

[Kot]

You just come off as a little too intense when talking about 40k. Might have to do with all the swearing you add in. Some people interpret that as being directed at them.

Wh40k is srs bsns.

But the other day I noticed a Space Wolf successor chapter. Wtf?

The only official (the only other seem to be Dark Wolves but it's not confirmed) Space Wolves succesors were Wolf Brothers, and not because Space Wolves want to flip a middle finger at Rawbutt Girlyman, it's because Magnus popped up on The Fang after Prospero and started fucking shit up, including a laboratory of Wolf Priests which caused them to lose all the work they put into "The Tempering" - the removal of their genetic flaws, most notably Wulfen curse, which happens to happen to literally 100% of their tries to make a successor chapter. Wolf Brothers were made before Magnus broke everything forever, but soon, with the technology lost, they also descended into madness and were officially disbanded by Inquisition, though some of them managed to get to Eye Of Terror, making the remaining renegades basically Chaos Space Wolves. They actually possibly reformed into Dark Wolves. Either that or Dark Wolves are actually another successors that were made due to some Wolves striking a deal with Chaos Gods, are actually Luna Wolves "successors" or something totally else. It's not like Galaxy is limited to only one Space Marine chapter with wolf furry fetish.

EDIT:
There is also a theory that Dark Wolves are actually one of Great Companies that went too close to Eye Of Terror while they were on some mission. Gee, I wonder what mission would require a whole Great Company going near Eye of Terror pre-Heresy... could it be one of missing Legions?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

This thread got acidic quick :C

How about everyone take a step back. (Kot's been generally right though, so props to him)

Also Lexicanum is quite literally the only source you'll ever need in most 40k scenarios... It really is the one-stop-shop for 40k lore.

[Kot]

My only problem with Lexicanum is that it sometimes has a quite bit outdated sources (like, 3rd ed rulebooks), and in comparison to the Wikia one they also have less content, but it's much more trustworthy, much better sourced and in general you are better off using it as the base source when you goggle stuff about Wh40k. They also have a lot of less images, which sometimes might be a problem, considering that an image is much better description of a colour scheme or insignia than text.
There is also 1d4chan, but it being /tg/ wiki, well... it's filled with 4chan and NSFW material, but it also contains a lot of great theories and sometimes they have references to even the most insanely obscure stuff (especially if it's something fanmade gone canon). There are also good amounts of AWESOME on there, as fa/tg/uys don't fuck in the dance and provide much more descriptive descriptions of events.

They also used to have some shorter canon stories in storage (Last Church on Terra) but GW took offense to that, understandably.