Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tack]

I don't buy it. In my eyes, 'Big crazy battles' are what's modern and popular, and GW is chasing it up with all their hearts.

Never forget, WH40K used to be an RPG. Where you actually invested in your models.
Now they've made all non-swarm armies into swarming armies, and then trashed all over those by giving zero reasons to take the squishy, useless, troops.
All hail superheavy and gargantuan, destroyer of battlefields.

[nenjin]

*shrug* I played the older editions, they were about big battles too. I remember 6 way 3000+ point battles back in the day that would take hours and hours. While I can't claim to be totally up to date on what 40k is doing, the focus seems about the same. The flavor of the edition may change from time to time though (hero hammer to infantry hammer to vehicles to swarms and back again.)

[Rolepgeek]

I still don't really get why everyone hates the Tau with such a passion, other than the Fish of Fury.

It's not like the other factions didn't have or currently have as cheesy tactics. It's a breath of fresh air from the grimdark, so when you go back in there's that contrast to compare it to. It shows that it really is possible, at least in theory, to survive in a reasonable manner while the world goes to shit. Which then goes to show just what lengths the Imperium have to go to survive.

Annoyed with my faction getting trash-talked all the time. >.> I mean, if you wanna talk about weeaboo, Imperium has it's whole obsession with giant mecha and there're the Living Saints and obsession with honor and melee combat for Space Marines.

On the topic of power creep, though, there's been power creep most certainly, but usually it's just a matter of new models that are more powerful, then nerfing them over time while other ones take the fore so you feel like you need to buy different/more stuff.

I haven't really gotten much of a chance to actually play or paint due to the pricetag and a lack of forethought when first getting into the hobby as to how I could spend my money most efficiently, but nonetheless.

[nenjin]

1. It was a blatant attempt to get Japanese players to buy in.

2. Many of their figs look dumb, and that's saying something for 40k.

3. As a race, they're about as interesting as soggy toast.

4. In the grim darkness of the 41st millennium, what no one asked for as a new, young, dumb race to be thrown into the setting while essentially doing nothing to it, a race who runs opposite to everything 40k is about before eventually ending up doing the same thing every other race in 40k does. Every book I've ever read with them in it is a snooze fest of boring, stilted dialog and and an inevitable conflict everyone sees coming, despite all the stupid "for the greater good" rationale and "moral tension" that still ends up with warfare and destruction. Because that's what the f***ing setting is about.

The only good thing the Tau gave us are the Kroot.

I mean, if you wanna talk about weeaboo, Imperium has it's whole obsession with giant mecha and there're the Living Saints and obsession with honor and melee combat for Space Marines.

Here's the difference: those things are cool within the setting of 40k. Most of the Tau, to me, is not. Don't get mad because you gravitated toward a race the majority of the player base sees as a desperate, fumbling mistake by GWS.

[Tack]

I remember 6 way 3000+ point battles back in the day that would take hours and hours.

Yes, nowadays however we have 1v1 5,000 point battles as the standard. So a 6-way will usually be tens of thousands of points. Enjoy cashflow.

I still don't really get why everyone hates the Tau with such a passion, other than the Fish of Fury.

1. When they were first released, they were the only 'Nice' faction in an entire game which revolved around everything being depressing and horrible.
So a lot of people saw it as kiddy crap. However since then they've gotten a few darker shades slapped on them and nobody is too fussed anymore about them fluff-wise.

2. Riptides were also incredibly powerful in 6th edition, causing a lot of hate.

The only good thing the Tau gave us are the Kroot.

The Kroot are pretty damn cool though (Although in 6th ed they canned the 'Genetic absorbtion' canon. So...)

[UXLZ]

1. Says you.

2. Says you.

3. Your opinion.

4. There's a reason contrast is important in artwork. Yes, 40K is about the grimdarkness (and most importantly the eternal war EMPEROR'S GLORIOUS PAULDRONS!) but if there's nothing to contrast with the grimdarkness then it's just dulll. Yes, Tau might not be executed perfectly, but a race that tries to run contrary to the dark, dark 41st millennium's normal occurrences isn't necessarily a bad thing. Not to mention, there's a lot of hinted,  actually quite dark things with the Tau. I'm not sure how they were when they were first brought out, but this is someone speaking from the perspective of the now. 

I'm not sure if Tau really was a cash grab by GW (and given that it's GW, I wouldn't be too surprised) but please don't state things that are basically just what you think, personally, as obvious fact. Even if it's believed by the majority.

I'll mention that Tau aren't even anywhere near my favorite race (though I think Fire Warriors look cool.)
I'm an IG/Chaos/Eldar person myself, and my least favorite are Dark Eldar. Tau are about in the middle in terms of how much I actually like them.

[Rolepgeek]

So, wait.

You're saying 'don't get mad at me; it's your own fault that you like the race I think is shit'. Also, don't see this as me hating on Squats, but, well. If Tau run opposite to everything in 40k, what do the squats do? I mean, everyone seems to long for the days of Rogue Trader, and that runs fairly heftily against how 40k is now.

All I'm asking is that you stop talking shit about them, man. You don't have to like them if you don't want to, but at least have some decency about it. Tossing them in with the crapsack that Fantasy turned into is rather a bit much, and it's getting tiring, since I've never really seen anyone irl get that way about them. Only online. (Kroot are one of my favorite parts about the Tau though, got me there)

Though if we were talking about changes being made, I would mostly bring up the Newcrons, the numerous factions that just keep getting piled on in the Imperial pool, the loss of the Lost and the Damned, the fact that they still don't really support Sisters of Battle in stores even though I think they used to, all the various side stuff like Necromunda and Battlefleet Gothic being scrapped in terms of continued support or model production...

Wait they scrapped the Kroot being able to change genetically in 6th ed? What? Where? How do they explain Kroot Hounds and Krootox now, then?

Also: Most of what UXLZ said.

Although side question now. So I'm guessing most of the sillier Ork stuff was scrapped by the time the Tau were introduced, then. Though, funnily enough, I'm one of the more cynical Tau players in terms of fluff, from what I've seen. Annoys me when they try and make 'em win without any failure on the way. That's not interesting, nor realistic within the setting of 40k.

[GiglameshDespair]

I mean, if you wanna talk about weeaboo, Imperium has it's whole obsession with giant mecha and there're the Living Saints and obsession with honor and melee combat for Space Marines.

doesn't scream weeaboo to me



That kinda does


The tau didn't really fit. I like 40k's silliness - or at least the silliness it used to have. The Tau aren't silly... they're just kind of dull.

[UXLZ]

What even is his "weaboo" argument thing anyway?
Also, you're comparing a drawing to a model. Please do Drawing v. Drawing or Model v. Model.

Dull? Yeah, a little bit. I'm not particularly interested in them, personally, but how do they "not fit" 40K?
Do the Newcrons?

[Rolepgeek]

I mean, if we're talking about dull, I find the Imperium itself dull. Not necessarily the various factions/armies within, I like the Space Marines for the variety of things you can do with them, if nothing else. It's all just monotone grimdark, though. Imperial Guard-sorry, Astra Militarum, since GWS has to keep that all important copyright (trying to copyright the goddamned term Space Marine are you kidding me), is, at it's core, 'throw more people at it'. And then there's the contradictions and logic failure in so many places, though sometimes that's a writer's fault(Point A: Specs for a Land Raider, Point B: Speed a Space Marine Landing Craft or whatever is supposed to be able to put troops on the ground Point B: Krieg Guard regiments being entirely male, because women are usually infertile and so the ones who are have to be basically made into baby-making machines...and wasting the entire rest of the female population who are infertile and could be sent to fight and die. Doesn't take much muscle to fire a lasgun). But if you're going to blame bad lore for the Imperium on the writer, and blame bad lore for the Tau on the faction, since they have so many less writers to shift blame around on, then you're holding a double standard.

But comparing the massive amount of lore the Imperium has to the Tau who are by nature the new kids on the block, well...if you go by 'how much good lore do they have' when the Imperium or Chaos are the focus of just about literally every book in the Black Library, well...

Also who honestly gives a shit if the Tau are 'weeaboo' anyway. Crapton of IG stuff is based on Russia(and actually so is quite a bit of Tau stuff if you look into it), or WWI era design philosophy. Necrons are egyptian themed, Space Wolves are Norse. People can like anime, or a style of art that's remniscent of it, without it being weeaboo.

[nenjin]

40k achieves contrast in plenty of ways, without trying to codify it in a race. Within the Imperium, moments of contrast are set up by real human interaction, and appreciation of life in universe of death, beauty amidst destruction, hope amidst defeat.

The Tau are basically a sledgehammer of contrast with no real underpinning other than "we need something different." They're there specifically to appease people who don't like the Imperium, but don't want to play or identify with any of the other races the setting offers. And they seriously bring zero to the table. They're a minor threat to the status quo on the edge of Imperial space, whose guiding idea is "slowly assimilate people through reason and rationality and only fight when it can't be avoided or when the plot forces a Tau to act other than a Tau." Boooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrr-ing! At least the Eldar have a deep mythic history, a unique perspective on existence, a constant struggle for survival. The Necrons embody that which is grimdark, the soulless death march toward oblivion for all sentient beings. (To be fair, they're space undead but no one is going to disagree that undead are both rad and grim dark.) Every faction's motivations are clearly defined without needing to read a Codex, except for the Tau.

They don't fit 40k to me in the sense they have none of the problems or racial motivations of any of the other factions. (Except 1) Tyranids and 2) winning.) They are a feckless option thrown out there to try and capture a couple more players, "neutrals" who like the setting but seem to think someone in 40k needs some kind of moral high ground. No one is a good guy in 40k. No one has the moral high ground. And if someone is or does.....they'd need to be a hell of a lot more interesting than the Tau. This is what the Tau remind me of.



Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I mean, if we're talking about dull, I find the Imperium itself dull.

And I find it takes its theme of dehumanizing Imperial Citizens and wrecking their worlds and their lives, and still manages to create interesting societies, ecosystems, political systems and cultures within the overarching culture to keep it interesting. It still manages to capture what sci-fi is about: alien worlds and undiscovered ways of being, while still keeping it under the umbrella of the Imperium and grimdark.

But comparing the massive amount of lore the Imperium has to the Tau who are by nature the new kids on the block, well...if you go by 'how much good lore do they have' when the Imperium or Chaos are the focus of just about literally every book in the Black Library, well...

It's a fair point. But if Tau were actually liked, by a larger amount of players or GWS staff or writers....don't you think they'd go where the money is? Maybe it's the fact most people find them so terminally dull they don't care to learn or see any more about them. And again, this has a lot to do with the racial theme which is "passive aggression" and that from the outset, GWS basically said "Yeah they're here too, but they're not really doing anything." Prep for another aborted campaign? Probably. But at least the stasis point for other races is left somewhere interesting, with some visible conflict pending. The Tau are sending delegations with their free time......still my beating heart, for dat action is too hot to handle.

Let me put it this way. The Tau would be perfect for Star Trek. But they're completely out of step with 40k.

Also who honestly gives a shit if the Tau are 'weeaboo' anyway.

I wouldn't give a shit if they were done in an interesting way. They're not. Whatever RL inspiration the Imperium is drawn from, it's taken and developed and the themes behind them are timeless and cherished. (Warrior culture, heroism, self-sacrifice, bloodthirst, being crushed by authoritarian might, struggling against insurmountable odds and so on and so forth.) The Tau don't embody ideals and cool themes and do something with them as much as they borrow from them superficially to match the art they've conceived of.

[Tack]

Tau are actually quite popular at my FLGS. But that may have been because they were powerful on the tabletop, and everyone in my area are hardcore tourneyfags.

[nenjin]

I think they've actually got a fairly interesting army composition, a nice blend of IG and Eldar. But the lore backing it up, not so much.

[Tack]

I dunno, I don't really mind it.
Once upon a time, Tau had a Sun Tzu. Let's call him Puretide.
He had three awesome disciple-students, and all was well, until Puretide died, and Tau were in a war.
Trying to use Puretide's tactical genius, they volunteered a bunch of their lieutenants and implanted them with a 'puretide chip' which would give them access to all of Puretide's strategic experience.
Unfortunately, this chip was an override, and the lieutenants ended up becoming unthinking automatons whose only purpose was to spout relevant strategic practices. Removal of the chips resulted in death (Butcher's Nails taught us well).
In addition, these 'Puretide copies' couldn't come up with new ideas or theories, so when they encountered something they were unused to fighting they completely ignored everything which wasn't in the experience of Puretide.
In a bit of a worry, the Tau decided to snap-freeze their awesome commander-protoge's, so that they could be useful later on for awesome strategy and whatnot.

Something Something Farsight.
Went to fight orcs.
Found Tau who weren't bound by Etherials. Went 'Ohmahgawsh we're a slave race'.
Is now a rebel. That's pretty cool.

I'd say that some of their lore is alright. The codex-lore specifically isn't that flat. Blame Black Library for only writing books about humans.

[nenjin]

Even in books where they appear, they're handled blandly. Maybe Tau don't have an internal cheerleader for the race like the other races do.