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Author Topic: WH40K discussion thread: [loading grimdark, please wait]  (Read 1050754 times)

Tack

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3975 on: April 30, 2016, 03:23:32 pm »

Yeah, the Cain novels and the Gaunt novels share the top of the list (not having read Eisenhower.)

Although IMO for Rah Rah Space Marines, the Space Wolves novels beat out the Grey Knights ones.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3976 on: April 30, 2016, 05:25:24 pm »

The book set I rate as the absolute best in the BL range is the Night Lords books by ADB. Stunning read with a good mix of Astartes and human characters, a mix of gloriously gruesome combat and quiet contemplative moments. It's also got some pretty good insights into the mindset of the only slightly chaos corrupted, which is a rare thing.
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Cheesecake

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3977 on: April 30, 2016, 06:06:16 pm »

Graham McNeill wrote the Priests of Mars trilogy, which was a cool look into the Adeptus Mechanicus, plus the Titans and some Black Templars for fun.
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sprinkled chariot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3978 on: May 01, 2016, 02:27:17 am »

Are there any computer games in great crusade setting?
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LordBaal

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3979 on: May 01, 2016, 10:07:29 am »

Nope that I know of (and I'm constantly on the hunt of 40k/FB games/mods.)
Maybe there's a mod around.
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miauw62

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3980 on: May 01, 2016, 03:32:41 pm »

Thanks for the recommendations dudes
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nenjin

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3981 on: May 01, 2016, 04:24:16 pm »

I'll give you my picks as someone who visits the book store about once a month and grabs titles of 40k books they don't recognize. Here's my list of top authors:

-Dan Abnett (Beloved by all, he both produces the most truly original 40k fiction and is the most technically competent writer of the bunch. There is a level of technical accuracy and writing he has that just makes his sci-fi feel so much more legit and real than almost any other BL author.)

-Grahman McNeil (Writes brick-solid 40k fare and creates characters and events that span several different books and series, so a lot of his writing has continuity. Has written some of my favorite novels.)

-Aaron Dembski-Bowden (Feels like newblood in the 40k universe and I think a lot of his stuff breaks out above the noise and repetition of 40k tropes with their ideas and execution. Always interested to see how ADB delivers something.)

-Gav Thorpe (One of the few old bloods left among the writers, Gav Thorpe has been writing for 40k for a long time in various capacities. Some will disagree depending on what they like: some people dislike his Dark Angels fiction like I hate James Swallow's Blood Angels fiction (notice he did not make the list) I like Thorpe's books because they feel true to the universe...although his writing style has been a lot of things over the years. His Last Chancers novels are ones that I really struggled to read but eventually won me over once I got past the 1st person narrative. I like Thorpe but he's been controversial with GWS fans due game stuff he's written.)

-Ben Counter (Maybe not the most original author in the BL but I feel like he commits to his story ideas and takes them interesting, evocative places.)

-Andy Chambers (Another of the not-quite-so-old-bloods as Gav Thorpe. Isn't as prolific as other BL authors and seems to deal with non-Imperial stuff with more regularity. But like Thorpe, Abnett, and McNeil, he seems directly plugged into what 40k is and so his details and craft really shine.)

-Sandy Mitchell (I put him on here mostly because of the Ciaphas Cain novels. He's got an easy, conversational writing style in those books that just makes him so different from the rather starchy and formal writing of most 40k stories. As 1d4chan puts it, he understands fun and how to do humor in 40k, in a way that enhances it rather than detracts from it.)

There are of course many more BL authors. Just glancing at my bookshelf of 40k novels I saw 7 more. In the end it's not that any of them are truly bad, they just don't do setting and detail like the rest of the above authors. Dan Abnett creates whole worlds and eco-systems of 40k grim dark to set his stories in, there's a context and a backdrop that makes the stuff other than the plot action worth reading.

Many, many 40k authors are inclined to just describe things vaguely due to the scale of 40k. Battleships are 'like cities in space, kilometeres long, bristling with vast batteries of macrocannons and tall spires like cathedrals along its spine" and that's it. Description: done. Pepper in a few obligatory "Space Marines do this because a special organ in their body lets them" or "Space Marines do this because of their enhanced physiology", a few "poured his rage into his swing and cleaved through 3 xenos at once, spraying the front of his armor with gore", add in a bad buy or a treacherous inquisitor or an Eldar farseer or a daemon and voila, you have a marketable 40k story.

So there's A LOT of 40k fiction out there and finding the best examples of it isn't always easy. At a baseline, 40k is 40k. If you're down with reading about Pyrrhic victories, space marines killing shit and being filled with righteous anger, quick sketches of a vast universe and starchy dialog, almost any 40k novel will suffice. However, if you want a good sci-fi novel on top of all that you need to dig a little deeper.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 04:45:50 pm by nenjin »
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3982 on: May 01, 2016, 05:04:51 pm »

-Dan Abnett (Beloved by all, he both produces the most truly original 40k fiction and is the most technically competent writer of the bunch. There is a level of technical accuracy and writing he has that just makes his sci-fi feel so much more legit and real than almost any other BL author.)

For some reason Abnett's work never appealed to me. All through reading one of the Gaunt's Ghosts omnibi I kept saying to myself 'Gaunt, you're a Commissar, not executing these people when you know they're breaking regulations is illegal. You were raised to be a soldier, act like it and damn the politics in favour of your duty.'

In his shoes I can honestly say I would have left a trail of officers bodies and had any Ghost who tried to hurt me or break major regulations because 'waah, my planet is dead!  :'(' either killed or hooked up to auto-injectors and turned into infiltrating berserkers.

I also felt his depictions of chaos were really, really stupid.
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
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nenjin

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3983 on: May 01, 2016, 05:11:40 pm »

Just curious which ones. SAMUS? Heritor Asphodel? Blood Brothers? One thing Abnett consistently does is not just relegate Chaos to CSM and Daemons. He tries to show the influence of Chaos on humans and normal people in 40k, let's them be the MVPs of Team Chaos instead of constantly getting their thunder stolen.  And again he tries to build an ecosystem around how a particular cult or warband operates. I feel like he also tries to get away from purely skulls on spiked shoulder armor Chaos, getting into more unsettling and mind-fuckery Chaos than average.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'll agree though that I would have had many of the Ghosts shot for their actions. But that's what makes Gaunt a different kind of Commissar. (Also like how Ciaphas is different.) He has a conscious and also did feel responsible for Tanith despite how it was the right call to make. Those two things together and I could buy that he didn't do his job in some small instances. In the end that was the right call too as far as the story is concerned.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 05:15:09 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Grim Portent

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3984 on: May 01, 2016, 05:20:52 pm »

I can't remember the exact name of the guys, but it was that Khornate guy who was holed up on some ocean world. Two Ghosts get behind enemy lines more or less accidentally and blow up a building or two, and rather than having his guys rush the enemy in a last stand to spill as much blood in battle for Khorne... he has his men start lining up to be shot by each other... not even fighting... just mass suicide rather than a final desperate charge. Not even efficient suicide.

That was the single most stupid bit of chaos writing I've ever read, and I've read a book that had a Khornate Blood-Telekine, a race of giant Khornate beetles and a toad demon of Khorne that was carried everywhere in a bath.

I also didn't much care for the Zoicans depiction, in particular the way Larkin (think I spelled his name right) reacted to pulling off one's helmet and the later reveal of what they looked like. My response was genuinely 'That's it? Laaaame.'


EDIT: Also, the damaged chaos dreadnought that was killed by a lasgun powercell and cacti. Delightful Abnett, you've taken a tormented warrior who suffered horrendous wounds, was deemed great enough to be placed into a dreadnought chassis, lives in perpetual delusions of battles long since over and feared even by his own warband, and killed him with a plant. You have managed to give him a lamer death than the chaos lord in Siege of Castellax, and that guy had a really lame death.


EDIT2: In other matters, with the new Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter formations coming out as part of the supplement reprints, I've decided to make a 1750 point list with Abaddon, 10 terminators and 5 sorcerers as the entire army. Just for some casual games and to get a bunch of terminators in need of a repaint out and about for the first time in a year. If it does what I hope it will it'll be a maelstrom of psychic death blasting out psychic powers from Biomancy, Pyromancy, Telepathy and Telekinesis, then pounding enemies flat with power fists and the Talon of Horus.

16 terminator models floating around with telekinetic powers, emitting psychic explosions, vanishing from sight and generally trying to be an entire army in one unit should be good for some funny games at the very least.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2016, 05:53:28 pm by Grim Portent »
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There once was a dwarf in a cave,
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3985 on: May 01, 2016, 05:58:44 pm »

Honestly, I could read entire books about Chaos cults and their activities within and without the Imperium. The whole "robes, spikes, and sacrificial daggers" cliche is great and all, but it's low-hanging fruit. I want to see more of the side of Chaos where the Order of the Bronzed Eagles take off their robes and go home to being functionaries and officials, turning the planetary government from within. Or just cults that aren't cults in the traditional sense, like Tzeentchian political parties or Nurgleite philosophers.
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nenjin

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3986 on: May 01, 2016, 06:02:07 pm »

I'll give you the Zoican reveal. I'd have to reread the other stuff but I guess ever author has their hits and misses. I think I'll still take the honest attempt over what feels like a ton of phoned-in fiction. (And even Abnett can get a little guilty of phoning it in, these guys have been writing 40k novels like the world is running out of paper for years.)
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Loud Whispers

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3987 on: May 02, 2016, 07:11:11 am »

Necropolis

Kot

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3988 on: May 02, 2016, 09:49:28 am »

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Re: Warhammer 40K discussion thread: Disorder Vacuum Seamen.
« Reply #3989 on: May 02, 2016, 10:01:19 am »

Dawn of War 3, directed by Matt Ward.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.
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