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Yes. (Spot/Listen>Perception, Move Silently/Hide>Stealth, etc.)

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No.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: June 22, 2014, 11:22:33 am

[GiglameshDespair]

Seems a decent idea to me.

[AlleeCat]

I didn't see anything in the handbook about Sorcerers using Charisma as their main spellcasting attribute. I switched around some of my stats a little.

[Harbingerjm]

I didn't see anything in the handbook about Sorcerers using Charisma as their main spellcasting attribute.

Ru4srs?

[AlleeCat]

I didn't see anything in the handbook about Sorcerers using Charisma as their main spellcasting attribute.

Ru4srs?

Excuse me?
Did you fall asleep on your keyboard?

[Tawa]

Who ever takes Forgery or Decipher Script?

* Guilhayl looks sheepish

I vote no. I think one of the things that was cool about 3.5 was the ridiculous number of skills. The 4e sheets just look so... empty without [Knowledge (Nobility)] and [Open Lock], among others.

Also, Sorcerers do have Charisma as their primary attribute. Slobs. We WIZARDS are not fond of your innate skill.

[Criptfeind]

Chapter 3: Page 54 has this to say on abilities: "Charisma determines how powerful a spell a sorcerer  can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist (see Spells, below). Like a wizard, a sorcerer ben-efits from high Dexterity and Constitution scores."

And under the spells section (on the same page and also here) it spells out how sorcerer spell casting works. Among other information it points out how "To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier." and " In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score."

I didn't see anything in the handbook about Sorcerers using Charisma as their main spellcasting attribute.

Ru4srs?

Excuse me?
Did you fall asleep on your keyboard?

I'm also a bit confused by what Ru4srs means.

[GiglameshDespair]

I didn't see anything in the handbook about Sorcerers using Charisma as their main spellcasting attribute.

Ru4srs?

Excuse me?
Did you fall asleep on your keyboard?

Internetspeak, asking if you were for serious.

----

Anyway:

To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

Save DC for sorcs is indeed cha based. Int doesn't have much do for sorcerers.

----

Also, Immaterial, did you get my PM?

[Criptfeind]

Although it would be fairly unconventional, it's worth pointing out that unless this game go much longer then average for games, 14 vs 18 charisma would have a relatively small impact on the game. With people only slightly more likely to resist the spells you cast. So it doesn't really matter if you just wanta have a smart rather then charismatic sorcerer.

[AlleeCat]

I'm just going to defend my decision by saying it makes sense in character and that's all that matters to me.
I said good day!

[GiglameshDespair]

It's fine, it's fine.
No need to get defensive. 

[Dunamisdeos]

AlleeCat, I played Sorcerer's exclusively for years. I'll just say that you do need to have CHR higher by the time you cast higher lvl spells. If you put all three of your coming points (lvl 4, 8, and 12) into CHR, then you'll be fine for that.  I really, really suggest maxing that or putting at 17 at lvl one, but if that's what you're doing to make your character unique, then by all means go for it!

As a potential party member, may I make a request? Since you have so many skill points, please put some into bluff or diplomacy. A character with high CHR and points in one of those can absolutely save the day in a variety of situations, and we may not get anyone else who can do it.

[Criptfeind]

I was thinking about putting points into diplomacy. Since I have a few that I don't strictly need anywhere else, and I have 14 charisma.

On the other hand, I'm not sure how much use diplomacy will be. Since I don't know our GMs style. Diplomacy is honestly probably my least favorite skill, as it's basically is just to replace roleplaying? It's always seemed odd to me that in a roleplaying game, you can just roll a dice instead of actually roleplay. And I know GMs differ a lot on it's actual use, some of them will have you replace interaction with it, some of them will have you use it to find out how the NPC takes your interaction, and some won't use it at all. And I'm not sure what our GM is like, and thus if I should take it.

[Harbingerjm]

Diplomacy is honestly probably my least favorite skill, as it's basically is just to replace roleplaying? It's always seemed odd to me that in a roleplaying game, you can just roll a dice instead of actually roleplay.

This is a fair and reasonable concern. Similarly, when making an attack on an enemy, rather than totalling up your character's bonuses and making a dice roll to see whether your character would be successful or not, you should attempt to punch your GM in the face.
Because really, what fun would there be in playing a game where you control a character more capable at something than you are?

[Criptfeind]

Alright, I can understand that to a degree. But the fact is physical actions are quite a bit different then mental ones. If you say you are a peerless warrior who can kill a hoard of enemies, I can see in your stats why and how that works, and you can go do that, in game, physically. However if you say you are are a very charming person, but then can't say anything but "Ummmmm..." whenever you are talking to someone. Or say you are super smart but only say and do stupid things, that creatives dissidence.

Now admittedly you can just cut anything like that out and replace it with a very shallow and poorly made system, like D&D does, but then you change the game from a Roleplaying game into a dungeon crawler, which I am actually fine with, and I would have fun with it, but there are actually games that do that better then D&D 3.5. And if you are complaining about my opinion based on the idea you want to play as a charmer it seems like you wouldn't like that. Or if you would, then it seems like you don't actually want to play as a charming person, but rather someone with magical mind control powers, which are actually done better in this very game then the diplomacy system does it.

This is made worse by the fact that the game basically isn't really made for diplomacy. In combat, as your example, you have many many complex factors that the game is almost fully based around handling your interactions. In diplomacy you have a single die roll with a few very simple bonuses. The fact is diplomacy is more complex then combat is, but has a much less robust system, if it had a similar or better system, Or even fleshed out in any way at all, then maybe that would be better (although to be honest I find it hard to imagine a actually good diplomacy system.)

Ultimately, if you like the diplomacy system, good, more power to you, you can be the party face, you're not even wrong for liking it, I just disagree with you. You don't have to be so passive aggressive about it though.

[Harbingerjm]

But the fact is physical actions are quite a bit different then mental ones.

In that they use a seperate set of attributes and usually different action costs, yes.

If you say you are a peerless warrior who can kill a hoard of enemies, I can see in your stats why and how that works, and you can go do that, in game, physically.

If you put the character resources into making your character an effective fighter, certainly.

However if you say you are are a very charming person, but then can't say anything but "Ummmmm..." whenever you are talking to someone. Or say you are super smart but only say and do stupid things, that creatives dissidence.

And how is this different from saying you are an effective fighter, but then being completely unable to land a hit on your GM?

Ultimately, if you like the diplomacy system, good, more power to you, you can be the party face, you're not even wrong for liking it, I just disagree with you. You don't have to be so passive aggressive about it though.

... You imply that I am incapable of or unwilling to roleplay, imply that the only reason I disagree with you is so that I can play a diplomatic character without effort, assert that I want to gain magical mind control powers by allocating skillpoints, all because I point out that you are advocating that people should be forced to demonstrate IRL competence at a skill to allow their character to use it, but only for a few specific skills, and I'm being passive aggressive?
Ok, fine. We can treat combat as a special case then, because it's so fleshed out and has so many modifiers. Meanwhile, I guess other abilities with simplified systems representing complex technical skills will just have to be roleplayed out.
You want to use Disguise? Show us your makeup skills.
You want to use Craft? Get weaving.
You want to use Decipher Script? Hope you like code-breaking.
You want to use Use Rope? Demonstrate your knot-tying abilities.
You want to use Speak Language? I sure hope you know Klingon.
Don't bother taking skills ranks, they're worthless. You should probably pick up some textbooks, though. There'll be no escapism in this fantasy world.