Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Neonivek]

You all watched a series before where they present a great villain or threat that all the heroes have to band together to stop. It was a huge climax and they barely squeaked by a victory.

Then they show up better then before and you are on the seat of your pants wondering how the heroes will pull a victory this time when the last one was such a small margin!

Then... they are back again... and again... uhhh... what the heck is this?

So here it is... What is your favorite villain or villains in a series (movie, videogame, show, book) that you liked but where they REALLY needed to just die forever (or leave the series... or be used a LOT less). Heck give one you didn't like, but this is basically trying to get at the heart of "good ideas that turn bad because they are overused".

So I'll give one (of the 5 I have.)

-The Replicators from Stargate
--You have beings made of nanites who are immune largely to energy weapons, but somewhat sensitive to ballistics, who present a serious threat not only to earth but the entire galaxy. Sacrifices were made, many irreversible, to finally get this threat under control and these creatures evolved slowly to counter the previous attempts to stop them.
---The sheer amount of "But they didn't stay dead" the series pulled on these creatures reached satirical proportions... They pull stuff even the Daleks from Dr.Who would call BS on. For example there was a completely separate completely unrelated group of replicators out there. They have survived being in a time dilation field, black holes, and being turned into a black hole.

[sal880612m]

I tend to have four main views on villains:

1-I know you are supposed to be dead but you were a lot more interesting than X the new villain.
2-You don't offend me and while I may prefer to see Y the other villain I will still watch you.
3-You kind of bore me, and future episodes with you in them will need to be amazing to even be passable as far as I am concerned.

Spoiler: Swearing (click to show/hide)

3-I fucking hate you. You should die, be sent to hell and have a pineapple shoved up your ass for all eternity and never darken my television set again. I need to see you get your comeuppances and vanish, in the next episode would be good.

[10ebbor10]

I found the Doctor Who's Dalek's to be very prominent for a race supposedly annihilated in intergalactic war*. Then again, I don't really mind, as they're not that over-used and come in quite a few varieties. Additionally, the Dalek's function as more of a threat than as an actual villain, in regard to the plot.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

*In fact, they weren't, which might explain things.

Edit: Apparently, the BBC is contractually obligated to bring use the Dalek's once each season.

[Trapezohedron]

The Xenon from the X-Universe.

I should note that it is less "wanting them to just die" and more that they should get some character (racial?) development instead of being given the villain treatment all the time.

Background:
The Xenon were an offshoot of Earth's terraforming Von Neumann drones. After their job was done, they were slated to be destroyed, but a jerk coded in a virus into the terraformers to destroy everything. The Terrans were able to drive them away from the solar system, out into some unknown part of the Milky Way galaxy, where they enhanced and enhanced. A few hundred (was it one thousand?) years later, they resurfaced and were suspected to have gained some sort of sentience.

And yet, all they do is destroy and destroy, and having spanned countless planetary systems which they summarily "terraformed" and utilized into more of them, there's no true way to destroy them yet. I, at least, would like to see them gain some rational thought where they decide they want to send some sort of envoy for diplomacy, due to them already having gained sentience.

[10ebbor10]

Actually, IIRC, he didn't intend for them to destroy everything. He just wanted to prevent Earth from decommissioning them. This had the slight side effect that their Artificial Intelligence systems malfunctioned, causing them to restart the terraforming process, which is problematic if those planets are already inhabited. The explanation changes between games, so it gets somewhat confusing.

And actually, I'm quite sure that the Xenon had some character development in a few games. It's just hidden so deep in various plots that you need to play a hundred hours to encounter it.

The new Home Plot, amongst others, included some interesting things.

The basic idea behind the Xenon is however, is that only the CPU ships are intelligent. The remainder are merely mindless drones.

Spoiler: Actual Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Boron had contact with the Xenon as early as X³:TC.

[Tawa]

The way I see it, there are four views on villains.

The Joke: A comedic villain, used for comic relief and as an antagonist. If he dies, he always comes back with a goofy convoluted explanation, which I don't mind.
The Serious Guy Mk. 1: The better of the two kinds of "serious guy" villains. He means business and always has some sort of "evil" in his alignment. If he dies, he's dead.
The Serious Guy Mk. 2: The worse of the two kinds of "serious guy" villains. He means business and always has some sort of "evil" in his alignment. If he dies, he comes back next time anyway with some half-sentence explanation as to why he survived being killed. Typically occurs in works affected by "sequel fever": Blatant infodumps, crappy subplots, the villain strikes back, main character learns of newfound parental relationship, etc.
The Mix: A cross between the Joke and Serious Guy Mk. 1. Funny when he needs to be, but he still means real business.

That said, pretty much any "Serious Guy Mk. 2" villains should be thrown into Mount Doom wearing socks made of fire with spikes on the inside.

[thefish1992]

not exactly a major villian but i have always hated those small bandit groups or little gangs that even after you have ,
won hundreds of battles/ faced down gods/legendary fighting skills and equipment/other heroic feats and strength that make you way more powerful then said tiny group of bandits/pirates/other mook,
 these small groups still charge at you with the intent of trying to beat you even when everyone should know that they have no hope against you and only real chance of surviving is running away.

[mainiac]

The Replicators from Stargate

I always thought the problem with these guys is that they are too much of an existential threat.  Enemies that are logically powerful beyond any reasonable means just mean inflation of the badassery curve.

Mass Effect was the same thing.  The Reavers were portrayed as so super-duper powerful and numerous that there is no hope of fighting them.  Thus avoiding fighting them is really, really, really important.  This works up until the series decides to make the plot about open warfare with them.  This turns them from unstoppable existential force to incompetant mooks.  You dont go punching the Sword of Damocles.

[Darvi]

It also only happened three times iirc, and as of Season/Series/whatever 5 they pretty much made clear that they're here to stay.

[Neonivek]

The Replicators from Stargate

I always thought the problem with these guys is that they are too much of an existential threat.  Enemies that are logically powerful beyond any reasonable means just mean inflation of the badassery curve.

Mass Effect was the same thing.  The Reavers were portrayed as so super-duper powerful and numerous that there is no hope of fighting them.  Thus avoiding fighting them is really, really, really important.  This works up until the series decides to make the plot about open warfare with them.  This turns them from unstoppable existential force to incompetant mooks.  You dont go punching the Sword of Damocles.

The Replicators didn't start off that way, they were dangerous indeed but they weren't unstoppable. They started off as a villain who poked holes in the status quo, where the reason why the humans were so effective was because the Grey Aliens (dang I forgot their names) were so set in their ways that they stopped innovating. It was only when they started becoming super sentient and they kept giving them new abilities (usually to escape their last death) that they became a existential threat.

The Replicators in Mass Effect however were... Mostly a plothole. Since they started off being the "End all" but where they weren't so unbeatable that they could just waltz in and destroy everything, they actually had to manipulate everyone (Hence the first game). Other games validated this point of view and the Progenitors even explained that the reason they lost is because they basically stagnated (Hence the point of the second game). They were stoppable but they represented a thread that if the galaxy couldn't be united, would win.

Then Mass Effect 3 happened... and basically waved a magic wand that eliminated all the plot from 1, 2, and most of 3...

It also only happened three times iirc, and as of Season/Series/whatever 5 they pretty much made clear that they're here to stay.

Honestly to me the part I hate about the Daleks isn't how they keep surviving their complete destruction.

Is how the show CONSTANTLY back pedals their character development. The point where a Dalek wanted to die because he was infected with goodness was the point where I kind of realized that the people handling the Daleks were just a bunch of hacks.

And don't tell me "well in early episodes of Dr.Who" because the Daleks had character development in the early episodes as well. The idea was mostly that they were a race perverted by Davros and his way of thinking.

[itisnotlogical]

I don't like the Daleks in DW. At this point, at least. They've been wiped out fifty billion times, yet they still keep saying '...but they weren't!' later on.

Get tired of that stuff after the first three times.

I skip the season finales when I rewatch the show because of this. 'Dalek' is the only Dalek episode I actually like in new Who.

I can't stand Slitheen either. They're just... boring. Their episodes, their motivation, their design, their characterization. They're so god damn boring, I hate every episode they are in.

[Neonivek]

Yeah so Dr. Who is probably the king of this.

The Weeping Angels were also this... but mostly because in order to make them come back they had to rewrite their motivations, methodology, and even how their powers worked.

The Cybermen I don't mind too much, because when they came back their themes were actually well apt. So they brought them back for good timing.

---

Now the show that was worse then Dr. Who with this?

Battlestar Galactica and Cylons... Pretty much period.

Why did no one mention it? because no one watched the series until the end.

[Loud Whispers]

Danaerys Stormborn from ASOFAI because she:
1. Thinks her claim to the throne is destiny and not just her desire to follow in the footsteps of her ancestors and once again kill the people of 7 kingdoms for power. Littlefinger is a villain because "he would burn the 7 kingdoms down if it meant he could rule the ashes," Danaerys intends to literally do this to the letter.
2. Thinks she's the hero saving everyone, completely ignoring all of her failings like with the maegi or any of her botched attempts at ruling because if she looks back "she is lost," all in the name of appearing to play the Machiavellian Queen. This wouldn't be a problem if she didn't establish she has absolutely no care whatsoever with her Machiavellian Queen appearance when she sleeps around with unimportant meat or caves into obvious manipulation. She isn't even consistent, one moment pretending "she is just a foolish young girl not versed in the way of war" and the next she's stronk Machiavel going to keikaku (as long as you ignore where it's not).
3. She frees slaves on principle and yet is fine with conquering the land whose only memory she has of it is a red door.
4. In spite of her power she has yet to do anything meaningful with it and remains the pawn of a fat man and a eunuch,  both of whom deserve her attention more as villains and as characters.
5. She doesn't know that her family are inbred maniacal tyrants and is sickeningly naive to the notion that her followers don't love her, whilst she removes her followers that do love her.
6. She's a strong independent womyn who don't need no man who was saved by:
*Barristen Selmy, at least 4 times.
*Ned Stark.
*Khal Drogo.
*All 3 of the bloodriders she abandons for her Unsullied.
*Jorah Mormont, a metric fuckton of times.
*Three fat people on three occasions.
*Xaro Xoan blacksauce.
*Greyworm.
*Bluebeard.
*Fuckmothering dragons.
*Ninjas from Asshai.
She isn't even thankful for the help, always thinking about "saving her people" when she has done nothing but lead them to death and despair. Again she steals attention from much better female characters both in show and in the books who have the collective spines of Atlas compared to her.
7. She is hell bent on conquering the seven kingdoms. What makes her an absolute villain is that she knows everyone leading the factions in Westeros are better generals, stewards and rulers. She knows she can't lead a court, can't lead an army, can't lead a Khalasar or a city and has only gotten as far as she has because she's brought a nuclear apocalypse to a swordfight. And she still thinks she has what it takes to unite the seven kingdoms. That crosses the line between incompetence and walks into selfish pride.

I liked her ironically enough when it looked like she was going to go full-Genghis and burn the world. Then from then on she did nothing but disappoint.

[gigaraptor487]

Roadrunner from looney tunes. Always found it annoying.

[Neonivek]

Roadrunner from looney tunes. Always found it annoying.

What? You mean you don't like the third Mary Sue protagonist of Loony Toons?

Joke aside it is sort of the reason why most people have started to like Daffy more then Bugs Bunny over time.