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[NobodyPro]

this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you

that's like half a femtohitler

and that is terrible

Once you reach a certain level of kilonazis we start lumping the offenses together. It's like asking a normal human to differentiate between a star that's 100 AU away and one 1000 AU away. They look the same at that point.

[miauw62]

100 AU is actually really fucking close for a star.
The closest star to us is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.2 light years away. In AU, thats 265 606.851 AU.

[NobodyPro]

It's a quote from Reddit. I somehow doubt they double-checked their numbers.

Wait, Hitler Hitlered so hard he literally became Hitler? It's like the old question, could Hitler Hitler a Hitler so Hitler than not even Hitler Hitler-self could Hitler it?

[Delta Foxtrot]

I thought sun was the closest star to us?

 

[miauw62]

I thought sun was the closest star to us?

 

Damnit, I have ben beating in the nitpicking context D:

[alway]

6. So we can work on it fulltime: Move into your parents basement, get your spouse to work, turn tricks, join an NIH drug testing experiment, sell crack, or get a job. I have to work.

>implies making games isn't work

pfffthahahahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

[Guardian G.I.]

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138478.0

There. 15 pages of learning curve discussion.

I think the word that would perfectly sum up that amazingly pointless argument is "sperging".

[Neonivek]

An EXTREMELY typical thing these alpha games will do is that they will promise you the moon and then, because they get tired of development, release the game pretty much with 20-80% of what they promised and pretend that it was the plan all along.

[Urist McManiac]

Kinda surprised how many people don't agree with OP. Sure, he's a bit harsh, but I understand the point(s) he's trying to make. Maybe it's because I'm not a charitable person, but I agree that spending money on something which doesn't give you a return (at least not for certain) isn't exactly a clever decision, financially. I can understand people who donate money to charity or projects like DF (where you actually get something in return), but spending money on something that isn't even finished yet and may never be... dunno. Well, you may see this as some sort of "art patronage" and it may actually be so, but I could think of so much more useful things to spend money on. Don't get me wrong, I'm truly thankful for people who fund Kickstarters (as they make games possible that wouldn't be made otherwise), but I personally wouldn't spend a single cent on something like that. Maybe if I had a lot of money to spare...

[miauw62]

DF donations actually aren't much different though o_O

You get art back and usually a special thank you on a thank you page, which is something you often get with kickstarters too. You're finding the development of a game you want to see made.

[Urist McManiac]

Well, you DO get something out of it (enjoyment), or more probably you already got, as you most probably played the game before donating. On Kickstarter, you only get the promise that you get something you will enjoy. But nobody's garantueing that this is actually the case.

[miauw62]

Which is the sole difference.
In both cases your decision to donate is driven by trust in the developer, the assumption that he won't just run off with the money.

Is the trust in Toady more founded than the trust in random devs? Probably. But there's plenty of trustworthy people out there on Kickstarter that just want to make ideas become reality.

I'm not denying the existance of people that won't deliver, but those existed before Kickstarter too (see: miner wars)

[tompliss]

No, it's really different.
I know that most people (I talked to) who donated to projects (DF, other games, or webcomics) do it because they already enjoyed the project for which they donated.
Of course, you can hope that the project continues, get improved, goes in the way you want it to go, but all things considered, you already had your money's worth.

[Urist McManiac]

Which is the sole difference.
In both cases your decision to donate is driven by trust in the developer, the assumption that he won't just run off with the money.

I must disagree. I don't need to trust Toady. He already delivered a enjoyable product (I know that technically DF is still in early alpha, but I think we can agree that it can be compared to a finished product, at least when compared to alphas of other games). With Kickstarter projects, I have to first donate money, THEN I get access to a small fraction of what the game will be one days (if everything goes as planned).
However, I do understand your viewpoint. As I said, I'm thankful for all the people making various Kickstarter projects possible, as some of them are really ambitious. But I personally would not buy a pig in a poke.

[Zangi]

Which is the sole difference.
In both cases your decision to donate is driven by trust in the developer, the assumption that he won't just run off with the money.

I must disagree. I don't need to trust Toady. He already delivered a enjoyable product (I know that technically DF is still in early alpha, but I think we can agree that it can be compared to a finished product, at least when compared to alphas of other games). With Kickstarter projects, I have to first donate money, THEN I get access to a small fraction of what the game will be one days (if everything goes as planned).
However, I do understand your viewpoint. As I said, I'm thankful for all the people making various Kickstarter projects possible, as some of them are really ambitious. But I personally would not buy a pig in a poke.

On a technicality, you are usually promised the full game when it is done... usually explicitly stated.  You are sometimes promised a fraction of it earlier.


@OP: I disagree that you think making games cannot be considered a job.  There are people out there, like Toady who brings home bacon on this alone.(Also game companies, lulz)  Even webcomic artists, bloggers and youtubers.  You can say 'get a job' but when people are making enough to not have to do traditional work... all the more power to them I say.
(Of course, not everyone is able to bring home enough bacon on this... so it would be a hobby or side-project for them.)