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Author Topic: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.  (Read 4601 times)

Truean

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Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« on: June 02, 2014, 11:03:27 am »

As always please don't quote me

Background
So, I'm looking for a job. I've got degrees and certificates and licenses and all that crap. My areas are legal, financial and management, primarily.

Somehow, it appears the human resources people have gone nuts and even partially automated so now your resume is scanned by a crazy machine that more than likely shunts it into a black hole if certain keywords aren't there.... This is new and I do not approve.

Seems I have no choice but to use this god aweful thing called linked in that pegs you into certain categories, which is hard for me, because it's hard to explain what I do, and I can't provide many references because it's all privileged. Shit. In addition, it seems it is no longer voluntary, or rather you can chose not to do this crap but then you'll never get past the HR black hole.... I'm a very private person, who doesn't want to do this, but it seems I must. Drat. Double drat even. Meh.

Also it appears saying what you do and a short general description isn't good enough either anymore. [sigh]. Most people and HR haven't a clue what I do.

I'm a lawyer (sadly). I do a ton of criminal defense, juvenile, domestic relations/GAL (bleh, horrible), probate, wills, estates, guardianships, trusts, real estate, business law, private tort suits (suing people over crap like personal injury or stuff). I've got about three years in this plus o god, maybe 5 or 6 as a clerk before that learning ropes.

I manage talent (bands), which is waaay harder than it seems. Herding. Cats.....

I'm kind of a business adviser (ties in with the whole lawyer thing) dealing with various legal, financial, tax, management and policy areas.

I manage apartments.

I've also done tutoring, and that's just the current stuff....

I just do tons of crap, and people don't believe that I'm even a lawyer at first glance if I'm not in a suit, cause I look like I'm 20 or something and even then.... Meh.

Additionally, when applying for jobs, I often get astonished questions like "why don't you wanna be a lawyer?" [major sigh]. These people don't get what it's like to be repeatedly cussed out by people you are helping (avoiding prison etc), occasionally being punched by a client, or thrown up on by a druggy (in the middle of court once or twice, yays....). Plus just dealing with all the crap.... Additionally, I get people who think I'm somehow going to jump ship to a legal position if they would hire me for a non legal one (nopes), or worse yet, that I must be a shitty lawyer who can't hack it if I'm thinking about leaving the profession.... They should try living a day in my life, except I wouldn't be so cruel as to wish that on them.

Questions:

How do I even begin to summarize this stuff to get a job, when it seems that every job you apply for needs its own resume?

How do I know the magic "keywords" the computers are scanning for when they look at your resume (through the computer, they'd never pay somebody to read 'em)?

How do I handle checking back with job postings? Used to be, you'd call or drop by, but now it seems that's discouraged somehow in favor of email, but then they will never contact you back and you'll probably end up in a spam filter.

Ever get the idea that they've just got tons of applications and don't feel like reading any of them?

I know I'm far from the only one in this boat.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 11:10:23 am by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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GlyphGryph

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2014, 03:44:32 pm »

Well, for things like LinkedIn the robots are kind of on your side. You don't NEED to summarize. Put everything on there that might be relevant, and let them figure it out!

Depending on what industry you're trying to break into now, you might considering going directly to recruiters. It's their job to figure out what to do to get a company to hire you, and the company pays them big bucks to find people that are a good fit. Having at least a few recruiters to talk to means a lot of your work will be done for you.

Second, you have to have built up contacts. Ask around - get recommendations through friends of friends. Ask them to at least inform you of opportunities - you've got to have people who think you did good work somewhere in that career, and for all the new-fangled tech the age old "know a guy who knows a guy that's looking for a guy" is still your best chance of success.

Finally, you've got the work ethic and skills that you honestly shouldn't be working for anyone doing shit, you should be hiring other people to work for you. With legal, financial, and management skills, and the fact that you look young, you've got exactly the sort of chops to form a startup and successfully get funded. Investors could easily be convinced to bite with that package being the primary motivator (and there's plenty of industries where looking young is a distinct perk on that front).

Stop trying to weasel your way back into servitude and answer your calling, Truean. You were meant to be on top, so start acting like it!
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Truean

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2014, 01:11:33 pm »

I really really do appreciate the vote of confidence Gryph, and it truly does help. That said, I'm pretty much going to have to get a job at this point.

My point of view is different than most people's because a.) the people I've dealt with completely alone have been utterly horrid (criminals, over entitled jerks, lawyers, etc), b.) I'm sick of chasing my supper. The hunter gatherer doesn't understand why the farmer is bored. Steady income please.

Perhaps one day I'll get more in the swing of things again on my own, but for right now, job. Ideally, we're talking about something along the lines of office work of course, but yeah.

Connections:

Thankfully, I've gotten a couple of prosecutors and a judge who are willing to say I'm ok. I do have a couple of people looking out for positions for me too, so that's good.

The thing about insisting that people get off their asses and insist they actually do their jobs the right (legal) way, is that they don't like you for it. Who knew lazy jerks would detest work? Beyond that, references are hard to come by because it's all privileged crap (and good luck getting the criminals to not be stupid anyhow if you could).

Might be able to string things together, and I will, but that's gonna take some time.

Recruiters:

Haven't used one of these before. Anything I should look out for? Very possibly a good idea.

Thanks again, and as always I appreciate it.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2014, 02:01:11 pm »

Right, it's not so much about references, connections-wise. It's about asking those people if they know of any outs, if they have any connections in the fields looking for someone with your qualifications.

Basic networking, essentially.

If you're not going to run your own business, at least aim for leadership positions, since you have the clear and obvious experience for landing them.

Put yourself out there on websites, have decent info on your linked in page, ask people who connect to your linkedin page and those you know in real life, even if you haven't worked with them professionally, if they have any leads or ideas (many companies offer bonuses for recruiting people, so if you're on the market people will often be eager to help if it looks like you are hireable!).
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gimlet

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2014, 03:47:46 pm »

Also you can bypass HR dept. or at least minimize their effect by having some actual person in the company interested in you, the higher level the better.  Some places give their employees some kind of bonus for referring a new employee - win-win.  So network like crazy, even if you think its painful and annoying, and keep in touch with your old contacts.

Forgot:  Oh, and incompetent/annoying/in-over-their-head managers used to be a great source of income, DON'T neglect those guys.  As long as you can stand working for them, you know they'll always have problems to solve, and they tend to move around a lot (and, incomprehensibly, keep getting higher and higher level positions :p) so you can get exposure at a lot of places.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 03:53:15 pm by gimlet »
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Vector

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2014, 05:33:51 pm »

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:29:12 pm by Vector »
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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GlyphGryph

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2014, 03:28:10 am »

Note that linkedIn is actually a convenient low effort way to find recruiters too. Just change your location to the place you want to work and fill it withkeywords and they will contact you.

I am currently doing 4 interviews across the country thanks to a recruiter I hooked that way.
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Truean

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 09:01:28 am »

Thank you again for the help you've given and hopefully the additional help that is to come.

I figure out the way systems work and game them. I've noticed a couple of things about the current bullshit that is the job hiring system in the US right now. Basically, the HR people and "specialists" have no idea what they're doing, are overwhelmed with TONS of applications, and need some way to lessen the pool of applicants that makes it look as if they care (they don't). Here's what I've found.

1.) Unjustly shifting accountability and blame to workers:

A.) You're no longer supposed to use the phrase "responsible for" on your resume....

Instead you are supposed to list what you "achieved." Laughable, if it weren't so sad. Most people, as a worker, have no say in what they do or how they do it, their boss does.... Said boss will take the credit when things go well, and blame the worker when things don't (despite said worker following boss' instructions and having no control over the situation). Basically you are now being judged by the company you formerly or currently work for, not on your own abilities.

 I once represented a company that went bankrupt. My fault? Read the example below:

I once represented a company with a second generation president; he inherited it from his dad. He brought in "cost experts," I knew these pencil pushing morons were bad news the minute I saw them. They strenuously suggested closing down a department because it had ALWAYS lost money; "cheaper" was their watchword.... I implored the kid not to, because his dad had started the business from the back of a pickup truck, always had that department for over 50 years, and was not in the habit of losing money.... This was an "accounts" department in a custom metal fabrication shop employing about 3000 people, and they kept relationships with major customer accounts, took them out to dinner, saw that our products were meeting their needs, and let's be honest, kissed a bit of ass. He axed it, because it was cheaper.... Damn it, if it ain't broke; don't fix it.

Wonder kid and his "cost experts" kept asking stupid questions, like "Couldn't the sales and customer service departments handle the job of the accounts men in that department cheaper?" I presented a plethora of reasons why this was a bad idea: 1.) the company was not built on a "cheap" market strategy but rather a "custom" market strategy, and now you'll never compete with China for that "cheap" spot, 2.) You'll start a death spiral because the accounts department doesn't make any money but it supports 5 departments that DO make money.... Etc etc. Deaf ears. The company went into Chapter 11 bankruptcy, all 3000 lost their jobs and the place sits idle and overgrown with weeds to this day.

Not a single one of those 3000 people are at fault for losing their jobs.... Well, rather, ONE single person IS at fault for all of us losing our jobs: wonder kid....

B.) Use of raw numbers as a be all, end all, metric for performance and ability.

Now, the HR drones want you to put specific numbers of what your jobs entailed. The real world doesn't work this way, and most people don't stop to tally what they've done every day. Rather it's "ok, got that done, and now onto the next one...." Your boss doesn't gain a thing from you taking the time to mark down everything, and instead that time costs him or her money.... Over simplified example, how many orders did you fill at your fast food job? No clue right? How many cars did that mechanic fix at his last job? People don't track this crap and only in the BS world of HR does this come into play at all.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Quantity is not always indicative of quality. Would you rather I do 100 jobs poorly or 10 jobs the right way? I'm guessing you'd take that second choice, especially if the job I'm doing is yours. Now they want you to list, for example, how many clients you've handled as a lawyer. Number of cases is irrelevant, because it doesn't reflect the difficulties of handling various KINDS of cases, or even that cases of the same kind can be more or less difficult depending upon several variables like the judge, the arresting officer, presence or absence of witnesses/evidence, and even the client his or herself. Moreover, I actually visit clients in jail and put in extra effort. Most lawyers I've seen don't bother, because that's time they could use taking on another case or actually having some time to themselves (plus jail isn't a pleasant place to be...). Additionally, I was handling the absolute shit cases that nobody else wanted, and at one point, the secretary told me my boss at the time was sending me on "suicide runs" looking for an excuse to fire me (and I won enough of those hopeless cases that he couldn't find a reason to let me go until he closed his whole practice due to his age).

Speaking of shit cases (tasks) and difficulty, that goes into how you measure "success." If the criminal client is guilty as sin, and has left a trail of evidence several miles wide that even an idiot could follow, then "winning" the case (going scott free), is off the table. Then it's a matter of lowest sentence possible, hopefully probation, that should count as a "win." I'm sorry, but I wasn't the one getting arrested, filmed on the police car dashcam with my car sideways in the street blocking two lane of traffic with a heroin needle in my arm at the time of arrest all on film. By the way, I met this guy in a jail cell handcuffed to a wheelchair because he was screaming and going through heroin withdrawal in the jail cell and later in the courtroom. Took a whole ton of effort, but I got him probation.

I guess that case counts as "one case" in the total tally of the number of cases I've done, and I suppose it would be "one case" the same as another applicant for an attorney position who had a MUCH easier case in a much easier area of practice.... Doesn't quite seem to add up as equal in difficulty does it?  I'm sure the same goes for tons of jobs.

Of course, this takes all the thinking out of the HR drone's job and reduces things to a simple number (which does not reflect reality). You are now playing "The Price is Right." For those not from the US, that's a game show where you try to guess how much things cost. Remember the part where there are those 4 or 5 people who are all lined up and trying to guess the cost of the thing on display without going over the price? That's what you're doing here. If you say you've done, I dunno, 1000 cases and the other guy applying says he's done 1001, then guess what number is going to be picked.... That's even assuming your job has numbers involved in it.

________________________________________________________________

The question now becomes the search for practical solutions to game this system. I don't know what to do about point A, but perhaps point B has an answer. Do you not put specific numbers? If you don't, does that automatically kick you out of the applicant pool? Not sure.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

GlyphGryph

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2014, 03:21:39 pm »

Ask your recruiters to change your application however they see fit to get the job. Different employers are all very different about what they want and value, and good recruiters will at least try to know.

Let's be honest, most companies start cold applications by essentially cutting out 3/4ths of the pile at random on the basis that they don't want to hire unlucky people. So you either apply multiple times or skip the cold app process by going through people.

And yes, achievements matter. But if you don't think you have any achievements to put down, you're not nearly a smart as I gave you credit for. What companies really care about is how you overcame challenges. A small victory against a huge obstacle is more impressive than a big victory that most of your peers could have easily accomplished in the same circumstances.

But that sort of thing tends to be interview fodder, not application fodder.

"Accomplishments" on applications are to demonstrate that you can get things done. They are not "laughable".
Quote
Said boss will take the credit when things go well, and blame the worker when things don't
How does this matter? Your boss isn't writing this application, you are. Take credit for anything and everything that wouldn't have succeeded without you. And just because the project fails doesn't mean you didn't have any accomplishments, or that you have to mention someone else eventually dropped the ball and killed things off. I'm not sure what it is you're misunderstanding about this process... but it seems to be a lot. Your application is whatever you can justify, that you think makes you look attractive or, if cold-calling, that the bots will like. That's it! How the hell does a person's "boss" even factor into this?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 03:23:30 pm by GlyphGryph »
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Truean

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 07:06:44 pm »

Not a matter of smarts in terms of thinking about achievements, but instead is low self esteem on my part. Moreover, it's a matter of how things are perceived by the person making the decision (some judges care and others don't). As for stating those achievements, the question becomes how, and that would hopefully be some matter for recruiters (at least initially).

The second point about the boss taking credit for good things matters because of one word "references." You have to deal with your references and take that into account.

I am misunderstanding a lot about this process for two reasons 1.) It's very different from how it worked in the past, 2.) a resume is essentially sales and I am not awesome at that.

If I knew, I wouldn't be asking. There are a lot of things I understand, but there are many things I'd like to know and I'm sure I can't be the only one. The first statement in science and the most valuable from which all others spring is, "I don't know." Follow that by knowing, and you've done something.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 07:13:51 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Vector

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 07:30:19 pm »

.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 07:20:58 pm by Vector »
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

nonbinary/genderfluid/genderqueer renegade mathematician and mafia subforum limpet. please avoid quoting me.

pronouns: prefer neutral ones, others are fine. height: 5'3".

Truean

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 07:55:27 pm »

[hugs] Thank you very much Vector. I've been rather depressed of late.

If you looked down at what I have done from as close to an objective 20,000 ft above sea level view as possible with a fair outlook, I imagine it would be pretty amazing. Being in the thick of it, has left some emotional damage to my perspective of things I lived through. Perhaps it is my imagination, but it seems like nobody is happy with anything anymore, and the constant complaints have gotten to me and my view of my own work. It's odd how people can slowly scrape a way into your head where they can mess with you. My perception needs to change to a more healthy one. I do apologize if there's some complaining in there.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 08:40:56 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Neonivek

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 10:18:23 pm »

The problem with Resumes is they kind of created a situation where you are EXPECTED to lie, and if you are honest... well... I hope you like being unemployed... because they will immediately assume that the reason you aren't selling them the moon is because you have nothing.

Here is how you add stuff to your Resume...

Are you a factory worker who worked in an automobile plant? Well you ensured that millions of cars were produced annually for your company, on time and cost effient.

You just have to think like a total lying bastard who is trying to sell a product that does only 50% of what he says it does... except that product is you. You need to sell yourself.

So when I buy you with money, what do I get out of you?

---

Oddly enough you want to know where I learned this lesson? In school

Me and this other classmate were both asked if we could do this one project for the school... Neither of us really knew if we could do it.

I gave an honest answer and said I probably could. The other student said that they could do it for sure.

The other student got the job.

Then the teacher pointed me out and asked me why the other student got the job and I didn't.

Mind you the reason the teacher was pointing this out was because in highschool I spoke entirely in soft language and not power language. Used weak words instead of strong words... and the teacher wanted me to stop doing it. (an example of the difference is: "I will try it" versus "I'll do it" or "It is probably true" versus "It is definitely true" and stuff like that.)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 10:24:22 pm by Neonivek »
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3man75

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2014, 11:29:24 pm »

Snip

Very true and informative, I'll keep this in mind.
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Retropunch

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Re: Social Media, profiles and getting a job difficulties.
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2014, 05:28:58 pm »

Have you thought about praying to Satan?

Seriously, I really know how you feel Truean - really, really do. Working in a similar-ish field (with similar difficulties of confidentiality) it's a killer.

In response to your questions:
1) Clone yourself. If you can't do that, it really is a case of just trolling along and doing all the resumes again and again and again. I've found the best way to do this is to make a file of all the questions/whatever you find in the resumes and your responses - you'll find a lot of overlap and you can just reuse. Make sure it's targeted, but it'll cut down on time.

2)I would suggest Khorn, Xom, Satan or Cthulhu as the go-to-gods for this sort of black magic. I seriously have no idea how it works. Look up some retarded buzz words and lob them in. Great, you managed to hire yourself an army of sycophants. Good job recruiters.

3)the Rite of Ashkente. I usually send a 'have you received my email you corporate shill?' email and/or call. As long as you're not pleading/nagging/blackmailing them, then they can't be dicks about you ringing to check, and if anything it might show how determined/'excited' you are by the paper stacking hell-shift you're trying to apply for.

4)I imagine that they pick one at random and burn the rest while cackling. It really does seem pot luck, especially in this day and age of emailed forms and stuff. I knew a guy when I was at Uni who applied for everything. Seriously. Everything. He applied for a job as a scientist at a weapons lab despite doing media at uni. LITERALLY EVERYTHING. It's people like him that ruin it for the rest of us, and I hate it.

Good luck. I'll sacrifice a goat for you later.

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