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[DracoGriffin]

I was wondering if anyone had taken the time to make a flowchart of the new buildings and production flowcharts. (Having to dig through raws can be extremely annoying as the included Helpfiles with Masterwork are more "flavor" text than actual information of inputs/outputs)

Similar to this: flowchart or Workshop guide

I've tried Kobold Camp and found it extremely difficult to facilitate a proper "set-up", without having to do tons of trial and error and figuring out what needs to be done first or whatnot. Everything ends up in a big mishmash and eventually death from invaders as I have no defense or chance.

Same thing with Orc Fortress, but with smakemupagus' tutorial helped a lot but details are left out here and there as to how he made some choices or ability to do some things. For instance, I haven't been able to make Dream talismans even though I've killed tons of invaders and ambushers, but butchers never seem to produce the right "soul" that's needed for the talismans. Another problem is not able to make standards of honour despite having fiber, silk, and wool cloth and prepared scalps. Another great help is the Orcish quickstart guide but not a lot of detail is given; just general overview. Knowing the tiers of metal would be great, and how to create/get them (like, how do you get welded wolfram or orichalcum, etc).

Once I get a bit more familiar with the above, I have no problem fleshing out the bits and pieces of the Masterwork DF wiki.

[SharpKris]

i'm also having problems figuring out orcs atm
a proper flowchart would be a blessing

[Vabalokis]

Flowchart > Manual

[DG123]

I'd be willing to go without a flowchart in return for a simple list of what weapon/armour types are most effective against what kind of target. It really is anything but clear in some cases.

But it would be nice if there was a flowchart for each race, yes.

[Meph]

It is very easy:

Cutting = Best against everything in general.
Blunt = Better against heavy armored targets, worse against anything else.
Piercing = Better against very large targets, worse against anything else.

Armor:

There is no specific armor that is better or worse against specific weapons.

[DracoGriffin]

It is very easy:

Cutting = Best against everything in general.
Blunt = Better against heavy armored targets, worse against anything else.
Piercing = Better against very large targets, worse against anything else.

Armor:

There is no specific armor that is better or worse against specific weapons.

Huh? This isn't even taking into account copper vs iron, welded mithril vs orichalcum, etc.

But the flowchart I was looking for was more of:

Embark -> Fletcher & Tribal Craftsorc -> Leather industry (butcher, tanner, kitchen, leatherworker) -> Boneyard -> Orcish Factory -> Freelancers Guild -> Raiding industry (Siege shop, wood, weapons) -> Raiders drydock -> Raid for goblin migrants -> ??

This is basically taken from that orc quickstart guide I linked in the OP but doesn't go into the details for Dreamwalkers (and various uses, how to make certain things, etc; just very simple/basic without any complex details) or end-game for Orc Fortresses (but smakemupagus does in his Community Fort but he doesn't detail all the actions, just simplified actions)

Another idea is what type of animals are better for hunting/war training since there's so many...

On the side: I will say this, I have been spending way too much time on Orc Fortress the last week... <This is a DracoGriffin. He reeks of menacing smells.>

[SharpKris]

i agree with Draco.
also i find my flock of condors very effective

[Meph]

what weapon/armour types are most effective against what kind of target.

That was your question. weapon and armor types, you didnt mention anything about materials.

With materials, it gets way more complicated. So much, that no one can give any specifics, not the guys who wrote the original DF wiki, nor me. Its all "this might that, maybe and supposedly and tests show"

[DracoGriffin]

what weapon/armour types are most effective against what kind of target.

That was your question. weapon and armor types, you didnt mention anything about materials.

With materials, it gets way more complicated. So much, that no one can give any specifics, not the guys who wrote the original DF wiki, nor me. Its all "this might that, maybe and supposedly and tests show"

That was

I'd be willing to go without a flowchart in return for a simple list of what weapon/armour types are most effective against what kind of target. It really is anything but clear in some cases.

But it would be nice if there was a flowchart for each race, yes.

Not me! 

I asked this:

I was wondering if anyone had taken the time to make a flowchart of the new buildings and production flowcharts. (Having to dig through raws can be extremely annoying as the included Helpfiles with Masterwork are more "flavor" text than actual information of inputs/outputs)

Similar to this: flowchart or Workshop guide

I've tried Kobold Camp and found it extremely difficult to facilitate a proper "set-up", without having to do tons of trial and error and figuring out what needs to be done first or whatnot. Everything ends up in a big mishmash and eventually death from invaders as I have no defense or chance.

Same thing with Orc Fortress, but with smakemupagus' tutorial helped a lot but details are left out here and there as to how he made some choices or ability to do some things. For instance, I haven't been able to make Dream talismans even though I've killed tons of invaders and ambushers, but butchers never seem to produce the right "soul" that's needed for the talismans. Another problem is not able to make standards of honour despite having fiber, silk, and wool cloth and prepared scalps. Another great help is the Orcish quickstart guide but not a lot of detail is given; just general overview. Knowing the tiers of metal would be great, and how to create/get them (like, how do you get welded wolfram or orichalcum, etc).

Once I get a bit more familiar with the above, I have no problem fleshing out the bits and pieces of the Masterwork DF wiki.

But I notice in the new update you removed a LOT of the superfluous redundant items so that'll cut down on the guess work for which types of shields or armors are better than others... (Bladed Shield vs Round Shield, Plated Hide vs Berserker Hide).

If we could have like armor tiers in the helpfiles, that'd be great. Something that basically showed the progression of weapons/armor (Leather Armor/Iron Weapons to Steel Platemail/Steel Weapons to Bifrost Armor/Volcanic Weapons) and flavour items (basically Flavor Items A/B/C are identical in stats to Actual Item A).

[Meph]

There is no clear system in DF, thats the problem.

There is clothing. A shirt. But you can also make a shirt from netherbark leather, which is steel grade and temperature immune.

There is armor. Lets say a chainmail. But you can make that from copper.

In that case, the shirt (netherbark) would be way better than the armor (copper). But if you make the chainmail out of steel, it would be better, because it covers more, but it would be worse in incidents that include fire.

In theory it goes like this in MDF:
Shirts (clothing) => padded shirt (armor, leather, can be worn under armor) => chainmail (armor, metal, can be worn over armor) => breastplate (metal) => platemail (metal).

Best would be wearing padded armor under, platemail as armor, and chainmail over it.

[DracoGriffin]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There is no clear system in DF, thats the problem.

There is clothing. A shirt. But you can also make a shirt from netherbark leather, which is steel grade and temperature immune.

There is armor. Lets say a chainmail. But you can make that from copper.

In that case, the shirt (netherbark) would be way better than the armor (copper). But if you make the chainmail out of steel, it would be better, because it covers more, but it would be worse in incidents that include fire.

In theory it goes like this in MDF:
Shirts (clothing) => padded shirt (armor, leather, can be worn under armor) => chainmail (armor, metal, can be worn over armor) => breastplate (metal) => platemail (metal).

Best would be wearing padded armor under, platemail as armor, and chainmail over it.

Right! That's why I think if there's a material progression and armor progression in the helpfiles, people won't be so confused.

Like, Wood -> Leather -> Copper -> Ironbone -> Netherbark -> etc
and Shirt -> Padded Shirt -> Mail Shirt -> Razorblade Armor -> etc

Otherwise, I never knew Netherbark Leather is steel equivalent; that'd be great to know in the helpfiles!

[Meph]

It is. Its in the manual.

Still, there is no clear progression. Many items are the same, or cant be compared. It depends on the weapons if a chainmail armor or a breastplate is better... and maybe wolfram is better as leather, but leather is lighter, so the dwarves move faster, strike faster, dodge faster...

[Boltgun]

It is. Its in the manual.

Still, there is no clear progression. Many items are the same, or cant be compared. It depends on the weapons if a chainmail armor or a breastplate is better... and maybe wolfram is better as leather, but leather is lighter, so the dwarves move faster, strike faster, dodge faster...

There is comparison tiers for vanilla metals depending of what you want (armor, cutting, blunt). Perhaps someone can do something similar classified by weapon type then armor ordered by density.

[Innocent Dave]

I was wondering if anyone had taken the time to make a flowchart of the new buildings and production... similar to this: flowchart or Workshop guide

That flowchart makes me want to cry, and that's just for vanilla...

Surely software exists that would make an interactive version, allowing you to follow a single thread to a given goal?  I tried to find some, but don't even know what to type into google for such a thing.  If anyone could suggest some good software, I could have a go at knocking some stuff up.

[Meph]

Cry as in: Tears of Joy?