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[Splint]

MDF ist still on 34.11, they dont have the new traits yet

I know, but someone apparently had one (or more?) workers attack things in 34.11. Just wanted to point out that sort of behavior will probably be the norm for orcs once fully ported over, what with them generally being belligerent jerks.

[LMeire]

A few versions ago I had a civilian orc try to starve himself to death because he was having too much fun beating monsters to death with his bare hands, and then he got depressed when I made him warlord and squad-mobbed the last one to make him stop. Apparently he was disappointed that the "patrol" was already over, and that over-rided the joy of slaughtering five of those blade-footed whatevers. He just couldn't be happy unless he was murdering something.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The orc that other orcs aspire to be bossed around by.

[smakemupagus]

Haha.  Orcs are awesome.   
Splint, I like that you call herbalism "plant killing"

... as long as it's still possible to run big stable forts (which it is for sure -- my wife plays sort of conservative and has like a 75%+ stable fort rate) i'd say little situations like this are working as intended.  we'll keep an eye on it for new version.  in the meantime with tobacco for mini-spirals and nerve stapling / promotion to warchief for the dangerous sociopaths i think we're all right

[Splint]

Well until herbalism doesn't involve basically yanking bushes out of the ground, that's what it is.

[vcordie]

What weapon skill do claws use?

[CyberSpyder]

Dagger.

[vcordie]

Weird you'd expect them to use the striker skill if anything

[smakemupagus]

I can see it either way, but I had already changed it to striking a few versions ago in the current series of little revisions for 6.*

[vcordie]

Is that a developer version or the current version we use?
Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?
How's the obsidian fair as a weapon material? Is it sharp, or dull like vanilla obsidian.

[smakemupagus]

Is that a developer version or the current version we use?
Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?
How's the obsidian fair as a weapon material? Is it sharp, or dull like vanilla obsidian.

i guess you'd call it a developer version?  not in the latest MDF.  see previous posts or the change log in download for info.  Nothing huge, just lots of little things (bug and balance fixes, catching up with some small changes in the larger MDF world, tried to streamline a couple things that were overly complicated, etc.) 

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6732

obsidian weapons reactions have [FORCE_EDGE], so they are better than nothing and probably better than clubs for an early militia, and fine for weapon traps especially against unarmored targets.

>> Also, what do you normally arm your first militia with? Machultis? Claws? Jagged spears?

Depends what kind of enemies i'm expecting.  Giant wildlife, stranglers, beakdogs - ie.. unarmored- you can't go wrong with macuahuitl at least for uruks.  The contact area is so large that lesser orcs aren't always effective.  I usually set the invading Dwarves and Elves to attack a little earlier than the current default settings, which means you need to at least mix in some armor piercing ASAP (jagged spears or claws). 

Claws are specialized weapons, they are great for punching through armor and disabling an enemy with pain (stuckin/twisting) but are multigrasp and take a long time to finish off a foe, so it's not the best weapon by a long shot to equip the whole squad with.

Bows are the best all around range weapon, especially with fletcher -> composite bows available early.

[CyberSpyder]

Not sure if this has been said or not already, but the "reforge" options at the molten pit should probably have a chance of failure and returning nothing.  As it is, a magma molten pit is basically a ticket to free legendary armor and weaponsmithing, as you can continuously reforge the same item over and over with no cost.

[smakemupagus]

That's an interesting point, I will think about it. 

Eliminating exploits is a worthy goal but my initial thought is that this one is mostly harmless -- after all you can do the same thing essentially with the vanilla reactions for magma melting and reforging ammo -- so at some point I'm OK with letting the player decide.  Also one could think of it as simulated training for a journeyman smith, until we can have lectures and demonstrations for civilian guilds, i'd rather them train by banging the same piece of rusty iron into a blade a hundred times than by reading some dusty ol' book

I wonder if a small nerf doesn't really change much, while a big nerf might those reactions not worth using at all, even for its intended non-loophole purpose.  When you can melt and reforge for the same zero fuel cost and end up with non-makeshift items.

[CyberSpyder]

With harder smithing, though, don't all melt-forge chains result in lost metal?  That was certainly my assumption.

Anyway, it wouldn't have to be a very significant chance of failure to close the loop there - if I was designing it myself, I'd probably set it at 90 or 95%.  Still a very reliable way to get decent armor, just not a source of infinite training.  The other training reactions at, say, the anatomical theater or the blood bowl seem to operate along similar lines as that, too.

[smakemupagus]

With harder smithing, though, don't all melt-forge chains result in lost metal?  That was certainly my assumption.

That's probably right, but I don't really melt-forge in masse quantity, so i've not really studied it in detail. 

>> Anyway, it wouldn't have to be a very significant chance of failure to close the loop there - if I was designing it myself, I'd probably set it at 90 or 95%. 
>> Still a very reliable way to get decent armor, just not a source of infinite training.  The other training reactions at, say, the anatomical theater or the blood bowl seem to operate
>> along similar lines as that, too.

Yeah, i think that i agree with you, i just never thought of it as a training reaction before   I guess the other potential solution is to make it require a second reagent, flux or something.

[kamikazi1231]

Yeah, i think that i agree with you, i just never thought of it as a training reaction before   I guess the other potential solution is to make it require a second reagent, flux or something.

What about requiring a piece of tough leather?  If I want to make a gnomes armor fit on my giant orcs without bursting off in battle some good tough leather straps would be necessary.