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[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's like saying the Vice-President is bad because BLM protestors engaged in mob violence. Being important doesn't give you mind-control powers or omnipotence.

[mainiac]

That's like saying the Vice-President is bad because BLM protestors engaged in mob violence. Being important doesn't give you mind-control powers or omnipotence.

BLM isn't a radical group of vice president supporters.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Fine, Haile Selassie and the Rastas lynching LGBT people. What more can you do than say "stop being assholes, you assholes, I command you"? Thailand is a military state by now, if people are caught up in royalist mob mentality then no, even the king being against them won't stop it.

God Himself could come down from the clouds and tell Abrahamic faith followers to stop being assholes, and nine-tenths of them would find a reason to not listen. The devout are not devout to a pure ideal, they're devout to their own desire to follow their own interpretation of an ideal.

[mainiac]

Yeah you aren't going to fix it easily and quickly but the guy was king for decades.  Even in a purely symbolic role that is plenty of time to get dialogues going.  It doesn't make him horrible but if your legacy is angry thugs you cant be that great leader.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

He was up against something that doesn't work well against. It would be one thing for the state to be one structure with him at even just the symbolic helm, trying to spread a more moderate and reasonable ideal down through the government. As is, he was up against the active forces of the Thai military apparatus, who were in the rarely observed position of being loyal to but utterly against him. Not to mention they're kind of fractured out of the normal state, but have wide-ranging authority.

And unlike the king's attempt at dialogue, the Thai military apparatus has batons and guns. One is somewhat more persuasive, and this was starting from a point where listening to the actual king was going to be difficult for a lot of Thais just out of circumstance.

One only wonders what actual imitations the military put on the guy himself. "Sorry Your Highness, you can't go out today. Security concerns."

[mainiac]

Not really seeing how that matters.  I'm not saying he is responsible for the military.  I'm saying he is responsible for his own fanboys.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

His fanboys who run the military? Besides, they're not personal fans. They're fans of kinglyness and TRAAADDDIIIITTIOONNNNNNNNNN!

[Tiruin]

His fanboys who run the military? Besides, they're not personal fans. They're fans of kinglyness and TRAAADDDIIIITTIOONNNNNNNNNN!

+1 to the thoughts behind these ._.
Sometimes there are followers in name who follow the concept rather than the person's meaning--and a ruler cannot control a person's free will; it's also in their understanding and a social issue, which is at many times in history far more complex than the mere idea of them being extreme. You can be a great leader, but your country can have not-really-great-at-all behaviors in the people, and they can possibly be not connected altogether. Hence context.

[Sheb]

It's hard, because the king is supposed to be above the day-to-day fray of politics. His hardcore "supporter", the yellow shirts, are actually the traditional middle-class and elite based in and around bangkok using royalism as a stick to put down the populist red shirts. If the king intervened one way or another it would destroy his standing and support.

This need of neutrality go so far that the royal color was changed from yellow to pink after the yellow shirt started using it.

[Tiruin]

Why is it that it always seems the well loved, long lived king is inevitably followed up by the horrible child?

Because a long reign with a revered king give the prince a sense of entitlement (since his father was so loved) without any actual reponsability.

Not always though There's a long list of Asian literature that has this happen--but the child is also as strong-willed and thoughtful, primarily because the entitlement is shaven away by experience and exposure, but especially understanding.

[RedKing]

As I said before, I see the parallels to the Japanese Emperor in the 1930's. Hirohito wasn't particularly interested in expanding Japanese territory or going to war with the major European powers, but he had to tread carefully because the real power lay with the military. And even the military leaders had to tread carefully because the *real* power, the folks who were likely to kill you for saying "Maybe we should think twice about this" were the junior officer cadre. As in the 2-26 Incident, where a group of junior officers tried to assassinate most of the civilian government and several of the more democratic-leaning senior officers.

Like Turkey and Pakistan, Thailand has a checkered history as far as both military and civilian rule are concerned. They've been under military rule for most of their modern history (certainly since becoming Thailand instead of Siam).

1932-1946: Military government (with young king in exile)
1946-1947: Civilian government
1947-1973: Military government
1973: Student-led democratic protests. King sides with the protesters, criticizes the military for their handling of the protests. Military PM resigns, is replaced with a civilian PM.
1973-1976: Unstable democracy which quickly veered to the Left, while the middle class stayed conservative. Military takes over in a coup (with US blessing).
1976-1992: Military government
1992-2006: Civilian government
2006-2007: Military coup
2007-2008: Civilian government
2008-current: Military government

As you can see, the period of civilian government from 1992-2006 was actually the longest period of civilian rule in modern Thai history. 

It kind of follows the trend of a lot of Southeast Asian and Latin American countries in the 20th century -- conservative royal/military rule gives way to democracy, but the leaders of the democracy go too far to the Left too fast, freak out the military (and after 1945, the military's ally in the US), and the military steps in to prevent "the spread of Communism".

In the modern post-Cold War era, the pretext has been political corruption rather than rampant Leftism. And, as in Turkey and Pakistan, it's not a total fabrication -- Thaksin Shinawat's government *was* corrupt as hell. He even had an anti-drug campaign not dissimilar to Duerte's in that thousands of extra-judicial killings too place as a result.

[smjjames]

Japan just had a 7.3 quake, Tsunami warning as well.

edit: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/21/asia/japan-earthquake/index.html?adkey=bn  Crap, Fukushima prefecture again. Same fault as the Fukushima quake a couple years ago? edit2: Actually, it's further south from the epicenter of the one five years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_T%C5%8Dhoku_earthquake_and_tsunami (compare that map to the CNN one)

[martinuzz]

Tsunami warning has been issued for the entire Pacific northern coastlines. I hope they finished sealing the Fukushima reactors

[smjjames]

I wonder how it'll affect that ruined Fukushima nuclear plant. The quake shouldn't affect it, it survived the bigger one five years ago, it's the tsunami that got it.

[scriver]

Stay safe, Japanese and pacific coastliners.