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[flabort]

flabort:

Who do you have the strongest town read on, and why?

Yourself, The Soldier, because you seem to be putting in the most effort building massive scum hunting posts.

Strongest scum read?

TheDarkStar, due to several brief posts. Next, Tack, for spotty attention paying. And Andrew third place for lurking after being active earlier.

Who is hardest to read?

MyOwnWorstEnemy, because of a lack of posts.

[/hr]

flabort

Tiruin: Slight Town lean. I feel she has a harsh way of introducing newbies to the meta, from my experience in Orbfalls and from Pisskop. However, heaven forbid I WIFO after only one game and a day.

Heeey...I did say i was aggressive in Orbfalls D:<
I'm not, here, but that is up to your discretion.
^{Also for personal posterity, could you detail how I was being harsh, and what meta this is?}

For me and Pisskop, we were not used to asking and answering questions, which is the norm in the local meta. You laid traps where if we didn't answer the questions you asked, we'd be lynched, but the questions were worded in a format that we couldn't parse. Don't let us get into this argument again, though!

Query: I don't see direct reasons behind your leaning reads. Could you explain that part?

Well, the reads are more a culmination of slight tips and tilts in either direction, the sum of several posts. I have been unable to find or point out any major tells or clues, beyond a few obvious ones. For example, the sum of tips from Tack add up to a -3 on my chart, which is equal to a minor tell; no more damning than a dumbtell, but I assume he's not that inexperienced. The reasoning is not a direct result of any one post, but a collection of opinions on a broad swath of posts.

Reads on flipped scum:
None yet!

I like your pattern of organization
Though, on that manner...I'm seeing more of said pattern instead of [subtle ploy].

What do you mean, "[subtle ploy]"? I just like to organize stuff, and I've had an opportunity to organize my thoughts before being thrown into the game.

[Andrew425]

Welcome to the game flabort!

Andrew:
There are some questions for you in my previous post. Here's another: have you been activelurking?

I've been paying attention on my phone but I haven't had the chance to sit down and type until now.

Andrew425: I haven't seen as much activity out of you on day 2 as the others. Whereas most of the other activity has picked up, with the exceptions of the dead people, yours has dropped off. Why has your activity dropped off on day 2? I will accept life issues, and unvote if it is those.

The last few days I've been driving back and forth between houses and I left my computer behind. I also relapsed and began playing EU4 again.

Tiruin

Andrew: Given your beliefs yesterday and today--how do you see a person's votes being placed as? Are they, to you, regarded as a good sign of a tell?
What is the most scummy thing you consider in games like these?

You're asking if someone's vote is a good indicator of what alignment they are?

Yes I believe that to be true.

What I find most scummy in games like these is a reluctance to vote when you don't have a good argument. Scum usually tries to back up their arguments better then town because they actually know who is town and who isn't. For the first few days town would have better luck just voting with their gut.

The Soldier

Andrew:

As seen above, my argument against TDS was not without flaws. Why so readily accept it? Now that Day 1 is over, ask some strong questions. Using your own arguments, who is scum and why?

No argument is without flaws, and from my cursory glance over it I thought it made sense. It still does, I don't know why you're backing off your attack so easily though. He was still active lurking. Just because he can explain a few of his posts doesn't mean that they all get wiped away.

The Soldier Why put all that effort into making a attack if you just walk away from it?

So I'll give my impressions.

MyOwnWorstEnemy -Haven't seen him play in a while so Null
Tiruin - I'm confused as to why everyone is so willing to call him/her? Town. Has been asking decent questions
TheDarkStar - Scum lean, was active lurking day 1 and while a commendable attempt at defending himself has yet to actually do more.
flabort - Neutral lean, hasn't posted much
Andrew425 - Town!
The Soldier - Slight scum lean - Willingness to drop an argument makes it seem more of a smoke screen then an actual vote.
Tack - Slight Scum lean - I'm trying to decide if Tack's vote is more of a hey i'm busy vote or a feeble attempt at active lurking

[flabort]

Welcome to the game flabort!

Andrew425: I haven't seen as much activity out of you on day 2 as the others. Whereas most of the other activity has picked up, with the exceptions of the dead people, yours has dropped off. Why has your activity dropped off on day 2? I will accept life issues, and unvote if it is those.

The last few days I've been driving back and forth between houses and I left my computer behind. I also relapsed and began playing EU4 again.

Good enough for now. Unvote.
Which leaves me without a vote right now.

Well, I've FoS'd TDS, I could vote him. Or I asked MyOwnWorstEnemy the same question as Andrew, but it's virtually answered by the post above mine. Or I could ask more questions, which is the safe thing to do for now.

The Soldier If you were scum, who would you be trying to vote off? If you were town?
Tiruin Which player plays the best scum game on Bay12? Which player plays the best town game?
Tack If you had a vanilla role, which team would you rather be batting for? Town or Scum?

[Tack]

Currently? Scum. The only person who's really pointing fingers at me is TheSoldier, and if we were both scum he'd have no reason to be.
Unfortunately, the current play-style I'm doing with my 'lay low' approach would be very useful if I was a scum player, but ultimately unhelpful for my fellow townies.

However as it is, I feel that waving my hands any more than I currently am will result in me being lynched at the end of this day, so I'd rather chance fate and keep my vote on Tiruin than end the day with the townteam wasting a lynch on me.

[Jack A T]

On the Ward, debate continued over who the infiltrators were.  Few crew members had strong beliefs, though.  Only Tack and the Soldier were willing to outright accuse anyone, and they did not agree on who worked for Hall.  The vote was tied.  In addition, people were getting tired of the long debate.  Without a significant push to continue, the discussion would likely end shortly.

Meanwhile, at a press conference at the Stalwart Robotics HQ, CEO Jack A. Tarasov had to address concerns about the PTY-31Z's personality module issues.  However, this has little relevance to the efforts of the Ward's crew.
Votecount:
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*Tiruin - Tack (1)
*TheDarkStar - (0)
*flabort- (0)
*Andrew425 - The Soldier (1)
*The Soldier - (0)
*Tack - (0)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, TheDarkStar, flabort, Andrew425

Day 2 will end 12:00 PM PST Thursday, May 1st.  That is to say, about 24 hours from now.

[TheDarkStar]

Tiruin:

TDS: Impressions on people who either don't read the game, or haven't read up on them, please?
What is your opinion regarding those who lay back the game for later on? Scummy? Null? I'd like to know, thanks.

1. What do you mean?
2. Null, but that can become scummy if they don't contribute later.

flabort:

TheDarkStar I have you down for several brief comments, such as posts 66, 69, 88, 90, 92, 97, etc.
What is the reason for this constant brevity?
You also didn't vote until being prodded to by 4maskwolf in post 99, whereupon you immediately voted for the popular wagon. In the meta that I'm familiar with, and the metas I assume Pisskop hails from, this is considered incredibly scummy. I'm pointing my finger of suspicion at you.

I gave brief comments because of real life limiting time and because nothing more needed to be said.

The Soldier:

TDS:
There were some questions for you in my response to your defense, check the ends of the paragraphs.

My answers:

TheDarkStar:
However, my other points about Tack, such as his passivity and lack of scumhunting stand. Do you agree?

Did pisskop ever answer your implied question?

Also, who are you referring to as Tack's scumbuddy?

Are you saying that extending is like claiming miller, in that town are more likely to do it than scum but scum still can, and it's thus null overall? If so, I can agree with that.

Do you still think he's scum? Do you intend to question him?

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. I referred to MOWE, but I haven't seen much of a basis for that (and it was mostly to see what his response was anyway).

4. Yes.

5. I'm not sure; let me read through this game. If I can't tell, I'll ask some questions to get an idea about what's going on.

Andrew:

What I find most scummy in games like these is a reluctance to vote when you don't have a good argument. Scum usually tries to back up their arguments better then town because they actually know who is town and who isn't. For the first few days town would have better luck just voting with their gut.

That makes no sense whatsoever. You're saying that people who don't vote randomly are scummy. Also, it doesn't matter how many times that someone backs up an argument; you have to check if those reasons are valid.

You're also suggesting that we stop scumhunting and just pick a random name from the list to vote, which directly helps scum. Why do you think that it is a good idea? Also, why do you think that people who don't randomly vote are scummy?

The Soldier

Andrew:

As seen above, my argument against TDS was not without flaws. Why so readily accept it? Now that Day 1 is over, ask some strong questions. Using your own arguments, who is scum and why?

No argument is without flaws, and from my cursory glance over it I thought it made sense. It still does, I don't know why you're backing off your attack so easily though. He was still active lurking. Just because he can explain a few of his posts doesn't mean that they all get wiped away.

He explained why he backed off: He realized that there were flaws in his argument. He also saw what I had said (as you have mentioned).

Also, I actually did explain all the posts that needed explanation. Why are you phrasing things so that I seem scummy?

The Soldier Why put all that effort into making a attack if you just walk away from it?

So, you're FoSing for the guy who is actively scumhunting and the person who is voting for you.. Can you see how this might seem slightly suspicious? Also, why not vote?

So I'll give my impressions.

MyOwnWorstEnemy -Haven't seen him play in a while so Null
Tiruin - I'm confused as to why everyone is so willing to call him/her? Town. Has been asking decent questions
TheDarkStar - Scum lean, was active lurking day 1 and while a commendable attempt at defending himself has yet to actually do more.
flabort - Neutral lean, hasn't posted much
Andrew425 - Town!
The Soldier - Slight scum lean - Willingness to drop an argument makes it seem more of a smoke screen then an actual vote.
Tack - Slight Scum lean - I'm trying to decide if Tack's vote is more of a hey i'm busy vote or a feeble attempt at active lurking

1. I agree with MOWE. He needs to hurry up and get playing again.
2. Tiruin is a she. I also agree.
3. I am most definitely town  .
4. He's posted a decent amount today, actually.
5. Sure, I believe you  .
6. I disagree here, since he's able to see when someone is town and when further hunting won't help.
7. I agree; he needs to do more.

[The Soldier]

flabort:

Unvote ...
Well, I've FoS'd TDS, I could vote him. ...

Any particular reason you don't?

The Soldier If you were scum, who would you be trying to vote off? If you were town?

If I were scum, I'd be trying to get someone easy to lynch out, as long as they weren't my buddy. No one seems absolutely doomed at this point, so I would see no need to bus. As town, I'd be trying to lynch the people I thought were scum, such as Andrew and Tack.

TheDarkStar:

TheDarkStar:
Do you still think he's scum? Do you intend to question him?

5. I'm not sure; let me read through this game. If I can't tell, I'll ask some questions to get an idea about what's going on.

Have you read through the game yet? Do you have a verdict on Tack?

Andrew:

The Soldier

Andrew:

As seen above, my argument against TDS was not without flaws. Why so readily accept it? Now that Day 1 is over, ask some strong questions. Using your own arguments, who is scum and why?

No argument is without flaws, and from my cursory glance over it I thought it made sense. It still does, I don't know why you're backing off your attack so easily though. He was still active lurking. Just because he can explain a few of his posts doesn't mean that they all get wiped away.

The Soldier Why put all that effort into making a attack if you just walk away from it?

So I'll give my impressions.

MyOwnWorstEnemy -Haven't seen him play in a while so Null
Tiruin - I'm confused as to why everyone is so willing to call him/her? Town. Has been asking decent questions
TheDarkStar - Scum lean, was active lurking day 1 and while a commendable attempt at defending himself has yet to actually do more.
flabort - Neutral lean, hasn't posted much
Andrew425 - Town!
The Soldier - Slight scum lean - Willingness to drop an argument makes it seem more of a smoke screen then an actual vote.
Tack - Slight Scum lean - I'm trying to decide if Tack's vote is more of a hey i'm busy vote or a feeble attempt at active lurking

So you would rather I keep my vote on someone I have essentially no case on? Activelurking is something half the players here are 'guilty' of. Other than my accusations of activelurking, my case boiled down to "possible scumbuddy interactions with Tack." Since we don't even know if Tack is scum or not yet, that's a whole lot of nothing. It isn't scummy to be wrong, admit it, and move on.

This whole thing seems like an attempt to flip me back onto DarkStar and/or preserve yourself. You can't shake me off just by putting my name in blue. Why am I a suspect to you?

[flabort]

flabort:

Unvote ...
Well, I've FoS'd TDS, I could vote him. ...

Any particular reason you don't?

The Soldier If you were scum, who would you be trying to vote off? If you were town?

If I were scum, I'd be trying to get someone easy to lynch out, as long as they weren't my buddy. No one seems absolutely doomed at this point, so I would see no need to bus. As town, I'd be trying to lynch the people I thought were scum, such as Andrew and Tack.

Because he bounces between reads. After his previous post, my charts read a positive value on him. But nobody should be bouncing around that much, so I'm going to be keeping an eye on him, but don't want to accidentally lynch town.

Your impression of Tack. I get that you are suspicious of him but have no argument to support this suspicion. Would you still vote for someone you suspect but cannot prove? Or would you prod them or someone else to look for signs of scummyness?

TheDarkStar Besides the brief posts (^{Thanks for explaining, and I actually have you marked down as explaining the phrase PFP so I should have realized}) and instantly voting when prompted to, do you think there are any reasons I should be suspicious of you?

[Andrew425]

TheDarkStar

That makes no sense whatsoever. You're saying that people who don't vote randomly are scummy. Also, it doesn't matter how many times that someone backs up an argument; you have to check if those reasons are valid.

You're also suggesting that we stop scumhunting and just pick a random name from the list to vote, which directly helps scum. Why do you think that it is a good idea? Also, why do you think that people who don't randomly vote are scummy?

You're twisting my words while at the same time accusing me of doing the same thing.

Why are you phrasing things so that I seem scummy?

I'm neither suggesting that we stop scumhunting or that we should pick names randomly. All I said was that scum are more likely then not going to wait until they have a decent argument before they start throwing mud around.

The Soldier

So you would rather I keep my vote on someone I have essentially no case on? Activelurking is something half the players here are 'guilty' of. Other than my accusations of activelurking, my case boiled down to "possible scumbuddy interactions with Tack." Since we don't even know if Tack is scum or not yet, that's a whole lot of nothing. It isn't scummy to be wrong, admit it, and move on.

This whole thing seems like an attempt to flip me back onto DarkStar and/or preserve yourself. You can't shake me off just by putting my name in blue. Why am I a suspect to you?

Your vote on me was because you thought that I've been active lurking. I put your name in blue because I think TheDarkStar is scum and you could be his scumbuddy.

TheDarkStar

So, you're FoSing for the guy who is actively scumhunting and the person who is voting for you.. Can you see how this might seem slightly suspicious? Also, why not vote?

His vote was because I he thought I was active lurking. I don't think it's inherently suspicious to FoS a guy for a separate reason then the one that he's voting you for. And I will be voting, I just need to mull this thread over again a few times.

[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar

That makes no sense whatsoever. You're saying that people who don't vote randomly are scummy. Also, it doesn't matter how many times that someone backs up an argument; you have to check if those reasons are valid.

You're also suggesting that we stop scumhunting and just pick a random name from the list to vote, which directly helps scum. Why do you think that it is a good idea? Also, why do you think that people who don't randomly vote are scummy?

You're twisting my words while at the same time accusing me of doing the same thing.

Why are you phrasing things so that I seem scummy?

I'm neither suggesting that we stop scumhunting or that we should pick names randomly. All I said was that scum are more likely then not going to wait until they have a decent argument before they start throwing mud around.

1. In your post, you say that you find it most scummy to not vote if you have no case - thus, a lack of random voting is considered scumming. Reading over your post again, I have noticed that rather than fully random voting, you suggest voting "with your gut" (voting however you think best without evidence). However, it is still much better to scumhunt; we don't want to waste the first several days by letting the scum kill us.

2. There is not a correlation between the amount of evidence that town and scum give from what I have seen, and different people give different sizes of arguments.

3. There is a large amount of information that can come just from day 1 (I've caused several scum to be lynched or disabled over the games I've played because I read over day 1 later).

4. Scum tend to gather information for their arguments, but so do town players.

5. Answer the rest of my questions please.

[Jack A T]

Votecount:
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*Tiruin - Tack (1)
*TheDarkStar - (0)
*flabort- (0)
*Andrew425 - The Soldier, TheDarkStar (2)
*The Soldier - (0)
*Tack - (0)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, flabort, Andrew425

Day 2 will end 12:00 PM PST Thursday, May 1st (just over 15 hours from now).

[The Soldier]

(Note: I won't be around for day end, so consider my vote to be fixed in place unless there's an extend)

flabort:

Fair enough response. My read on Tack is primarily due to seeming unwillingness to scumhunt, but it's a weak read at this point and most of it was based off of day 1. Ideally, by day end I would be voting for someone based on more than suspicion, and I would only vote someone based off of gut in a truly desperate situation, like a 3-man lylo where the last scum had blended in expertly.

Andrew:

Yes, but why? Would you be willing to transform that into a vote, considering that the day's almost over?

Summary of my case on Andrew:

-Active-lurking: has been posting, but has done little-to-no scumhunting. (See: all his posts)
-Suspects me mainly because I suspect him. (See: here)
-Agrees with things he doesn't fully read, attempting to 'throw dirt' onto others and fast talk the town (See: here and here)

[Andrew425]

Andrew:
Yes, but why? Would you be willing to transform that into a vote, considering that the day's almost over?

Sure, I'll go with my gut and vote Tiruin.

[Jack A T]

Votecount:
*MyOwnWorstEnemy - (0)
*Tiruin - Tack, Andrew425 (2)
*TheDarkStar - (0)
*flabort- (0)
*Andrew425 - The Soldier, TheDarkStar (2)
*The Soldier - (0)
*Tack - (0)
Not Voting: MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, flabort

Day 2 will end in 30 minutes!

[The Soldier]

PFP

Way to tie the vote