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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[smjjames]

Looks like more fighting is happening in slavyansk, as ukraine forces are trying to take control over the city
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfJFklp7Ez0

Odessa as well. http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/ukraine-crisis-idINL6N0NR1KX20140505

Russia is also claiming that lawlessness in Ukraine will lead to unrest in Europe. http://en.ria.ru/world/20140505/189586479/Lawlessness-in-Ukraine-Could-Lead-to-Conflicts-in-Europe--Moscow.html
The only place I could see that happening is the Balkans (which is still a powderkeg), but then again, they are ignoring their own internal conflicts (which seem more likely to be emboldened) and being hypocritical about human rights.

As for Odessa being a Russian city, well, it IS true that it was founded by order of Catherine the Great and according to Wikipedia, ethnic Russians were a majority for much of the cities history. So, it has major historical ties.

However, right now it's around 62% Ukranian and it's a very cosmopolitan city.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Another ukraine chopper Mi-24  shot down from heave machine gun in Sloviansk, which is not a surprise when they fly this low

And when pilots have no real combat experience and chopper is a Russian crap. I hope after the war we'll find a way to get better helicopters

[XXSockXX]

The Russian human rights council concludes that the results of the referendum in Crimea were faked, instead of the official numbers (83 % turnout, 95% for joining Russia), the numbers were more in the range of 50-60% for joining Russia, with a turnout of 30-50% (these numbers are from the city of Sevastopol, not the whole of Crimea).
(article in German, the official report in Russian)

Russia is also claiming that lawlessness in Ukraine will lead to unrest in Europe. http://en.ria.ru/world/20140505/189586479/Lawlessness-in-Ukraine-Could-Lead-to-Conflicts-in-Europe--Moscow.html
The only place I could see that happening is the Balkans (which is still a powderkeg), but then again, they are ignoring their own internal conflicts (which seem more likely to be emboldened) and being hypocritical about human rights.

Silly hypocrisy. The only ethnic conflicts that are influenced by the events in Ukraine are in countries with Russian minorities, fueled and possibly staged by Russian foreign policy.

[smjjames]

So the Russians themselves admit it was faked? Lol. Now if we could get Putin to admit it was faked (aka rigged).......

[XXSockXX]

Well, they don't explicitely say the numbers are fake, but if the turnout and yes votes were that low in Sevastopol, which is a pretty pro-Russian city, there is no way that the official numbers hold up.

[GlyphGryph]

An article in pro-Russian leaning Ukrainian website Vesti.ua has its own version of events, as seen by its journalist present during the riots - it claims that while all sides in the riots were armed with Molotov cocktails and non-lethal pneumatic pistols, people wearing red armbands, who opened live fire at Ukrainian supporters and who were reported to be pro-Russian gunmen were possibly (as alleged by the journalist's contacts in the Odessa police) provocateurs sent by someone (allegedly the Kiev authorities) to frame the pro-Russian forces. It also claims that Ukrainian nationalists didn't help the people who managed to flee the fire but beat them instead.

I can't think of any possible reason why the Ukranian's would be interested in setting up a false flag here, especially like this. Is there any evidence, or just conjecture and one journalists unknown contact in the police force (that may effectively still just be conjecture unless it was someone actually involved)?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

So the dead in Odessa are both brave Russian protectors of Russian rights and Ukrainian provocateurs..

[Sinistar]

Using UK for Ukraine instead of United Knigdom is confusing as hell.

And I'd keep believing we are talking about United Kingdom here if it wasn't for your post.
Dammit brain, wake up.

Another ukraine chopper Mi-24  shot down from heave machine gun in Sloviansk, which is not a surprise when they fly this low:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLVGTnB33_0

And when pilots have no real combat experience and chopper is a Russian crap. I hope after the war we'll find a way to get better helicopters

Ever since I was a kid I got information and thus remained convinced Hind was supposed to be near indestructible flying tank with his only weakness being rotor and even that only when attacked from above.

There goes my childhood dreams.


On a more serious note:
"Ukraine crisis: Rebels 'retreating' in Sloviansk"
Title is a bit dodgy as they are in fact "retreating" deeper into the city...But shit man, watching the video in that article...it's Balkans war all over again. 

[smjjames]

So the dead in Odessa are both brave Russian protectors of Russian rights and Ukrainian provocateurs..

No, they're brave Ukranian protectors of Ukranian rights and Russian provocateurs.

No wait, they are BOTH protectors of rights and BOTH are provocateurs.

Honestly, both sides are at fault, the pro Russian who shot into the crowd and the soccer hooligans were exactly that, soccer hooligans.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

Honestly, both sides are at fault, the pro Russian who shot into the crowd and the soccer hooligans were exactly that, soccer hooligans.

AFAIK attacking a group of soccer ultras as they are holding an anti-putin demonstration, killing one, is bound to get them riled up, especially when its viewed as an invasion and attempt to violate their god-given rights.

[smjjames]

Honestly, both sides are at fault, the pro Russian who shot into the crowd and the soccer hooligans were exactly that, soccer hooligans.

AFAIK attacking a group of soccer ultras as they are holding an anti-putin demonstration, killing one, is bound to get them riled up, especially when its viewed as an invasion and attempt to suppress more Ukranian people's voices.

They both riled each other up really. On top of the fact that the police did nothing to control the situation.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

They both riled each other up really. On top of the fact that the police did nothing to control the situation.

I believe the police fled and allowed the Putin supporters to attack the Ultras, leading to the locals responding in kind.

[nenjin]

It's kind of hard to maintain order when the people responsible for doing so tuck tail and run.

[smjjames]

They both riled each other up really. On top of the fact that the police did nothing to control the situation.

I believe the police fled and allowed the Putin supporters to attack the Ultras, leading to the locals responding in kind.

Same thing as 'police not keeping the situation under control'.

Also, in the Reuters article, it said that the government realized that the police in eastern Ukraine are useless. I wonder how long it took them to realize how corrupt things were and whether they realize that the entire nations police force should be called into question.

As for the police being corrupt and using paid thugs, is that a Yanukusvenko thing or is it older?

It's kind of hard to maintain order when the people responsible for doing so tuck tail and run.

Exactly.

[Sergarr]

[FOG OF WAR INTENSIFIES]