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Until I figure out how to un-close it, at least.

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So yeah.

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Total Members Voted: 0

Voting closed: May 01, 2014, 02:06:40 pm

[Descan]

Aye, I much prefer just out-right saying what you want, even if it's just a label. Saying you want Socialism, for example, is much more concrete than saying "left/right wing".

[Knit tie]

So anyway, what happened to gogis?

[Descan]

He exploded from contradiction, the right-wing liberal that he is~

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Left is liberal and anti-government, right is conservative and pro-government.

Though, depending on where you are, Socialism could be pro-government and left wing. I believe Ukrainian Ranger experiences this in Ukraine where the opposition is really quite right wing.

I think that in Ukraine we have no non-marginal left parties. It is a struggle between various types of rights. As I said many times before our Communist have nothing in common with the left ideology. Project of Oligarchs that exploits nostalgia of elder people who understand nothing in modern politics.

But I dislike the whole right-left system. It is too restricted to compare complex political parties and ideologies in any meaningful way

[misko27]

Wikipedia link here. The terms "right", "left", and "center originate from the French revolution, where those who supported the monarch were on the right, those who supported revolution sat to the left, and the moderates were in the middle. Roughly speaking, the right includes those who want things to remain as they are and those who wish to revert to an earlier time, while the left are those who support change. There is also a rough relationship in inequality, in that the left sees it as wrong, unfair, and immoral, while the right sees it as inevitable, natural, or even preferable. This is related to the progressive vs. reactionary thing in that it's usually agreed that whatever right now includes a great deal of inequality, so to embrace now or the past is to accept it.

It's useful to remember that a right or left wing may include one or both of those concepts. There is so much room in the definition that very, very different groups fall on the same side of the scale. Wikipedia:

There is general consensus that the Left includes progressives, communists, social-liberals, greens, social-democrats, socialists, democratic-socialists, left-libertarians, secularists, feminists, autonomists, anti-imperialists, anti-capitalists, and anarchists, and that the Right includes conservatives, reactionaries, neoconservatives, traditionalists, capitalists, neoliberals, right-libertarians, social-authoritarians, monarchists, theocrats, nationalists and fascists.

So anyway, what happened to gogis?

I think he is a time-zone that is asleep at the moment. Or at work.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

On the Russian maneuvers, someone's described it as 'pulsing'. They're basically making mock attack runs and then changing course at the last second. Good practice, and lets them watch Ukraine's reaction.

Same deal with the repeated penetration of Ukrainian airspace.
One of these days, they won't change course.

[Mr. Strange]

On the Russian maneuvers, someone's described it as 'pulsing'. They're basically making mock attack runs and then changing course at the last second. Good practice, and lets them watch Ukraine's reaction.

Same deal with the repeated penetration of Ukrainian airspace.
One of these days, they won't change course.

Mines, anyone?

[Ghazkull]

Sooo, lets see, we send Osze observers up there and they get arrested by Ukrainian Rebels because they "found" ammunition in their cars. THey claim one fo the Passengers who is Ukrainian Military is a Secret Agent/Member of an Intelligence Service and then they also arrest a Russian?

Call me a bit confused on the matter but do those seperatists have a suicidal urge to start a war? There is nothing better than taking german hostages to provoke a violent action in germany. PLus why the Russian? Seems a bit idiotical when they want russian support.

I also read something about violence against foreigners and especially jews from the Ukrainian Seperatists, is there something to it or has german media gone into propaganda mode?

[GrizzlyAdamz]

@mines
You've seen the 'trailblazer' vehicles right? Meanwhile mining the major roadways is a commitment to closing them for months at least, (which apparently they haven't felt compelled to do), and most likely incurring some collateral damage even if they don't get invaded.
Mines work best by making off-road areas not just difficult but impossible to traverse without significant effort. And that practice isn't exactly popular.

Fun fact: the Ottawa treaty is an agreement to prevent manufacture, stockpiling, and use of AP mines. Ukraine is a signatory. The USA & Russia are not.

[Knit tie]

Sooo, lets see, we send Osze observers up there and they get arrested by Ukrainian Rebels because they "found" ammunition in their cars. THey claim one fo the Passengers who is Ukrainian Military is a Secret Agent/Member of an Intelligence Service and then they also arrest a Russian?

Call me a bit confused on the matter but do those seperatists have a suicidal urge to start a war? There is nothing better than taking german hostages to provoke a violent action in germany. PLus why the Russian? Seems a bit idiotical when they want russian support.

I also read something about violence against foreigners and especially jews from the Ukrainian Seperatists, is there something to it or has german media gone into propaganda mode?

Extremists tend to be crazy like that.

[Helgoland]

There is nothing better than taking german hostages to provoke a violent action in germany.

Never underestimate the Germans' pseudo-pacifism. There's been no real outcry, it was just... reported. Front page news, yeah, but not "They'll hang for that!".

[misko27]

@mines
You've seen the 'trailblazer' vehicles right? Meanwhile mining the major roadways is a commitment to closing them for months at least, (which apparently they haven't felt compelled to do), and most likely incurring some collateral damage even if they don't get invaded.
Mines work best by making off-road areas not just difficult but impossible to traverse without significant effort. And that practice isn't exactly popular.

Fun fact: the Ottawa treaty is an agreement to prevent manufacture, stockpiling, and use of AP mines. Ukraine is a signatory. The USA & Russia are not.

I was going to post this, but I decided mines probably wouldn't be particularly effective at defending an airspace anyway.

[Knit tie]

@mines
You've seen the 'trailblazer' vehicles right? Meanwhile mining the major roadways is a commitment to closing them for months at least, (which apparently they haven't felt compelled to do), and most likely incurring some collateral damage even if they don't get invaded.
Mines work best by making off-road areas not just difficult but impossible to traverse without significant effort. And that practice isn't exactly popular.

Fun fact: the Ottawa treaty is an agreement to prevent manufacture, stockpiling, and use of AP mines. Ukraine is a signatory. The USA & Russia are not.

I was going to post this, but I decided mines probably wouldn't be particularly effective at defending an airspace anyway.

You just have to throw them very hard.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

So, Russian colonel has no intention to release "NATO spies"

[Guardian G.I.]

Spoiler: Anti-Russian "art performance" called "Beware of Russians!", which was held in Kiev on the 24rd of April (click to show/hide)

photos taken from here.