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Duke Knight's Momentum is up for revision? Which version of the skill would you prefer?

Current one, unchanged.
+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.
Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.
I don't know but I want to see the results.

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Author Topic: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! 10 Years of FEF!  (Read 304890 times)

SeriousConcentrate

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2145 on: November 11, 2014, 08:52:40 pm »

You're welcome. ^^^
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CecilHoshino

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2146 on: November 12, 2014, 03:49:08 am »

When Cecil disappears, he disappears for a WHILE.

So, some responses:
  • On the original FEF's wrap on: Congratulations, and thank you for the constant stress testing, leading to such much needed changes as the Guard nerf.
  • On the Mercenary system: It's a neat idea, but probably something of a supplementary system, not incorporated in the main book itself. Kinda reminds me of the Reinforce skill, but a lot cleaner at least, so it's already miles better.
  • On Quickdraw: It'd definitely have to be a Cost skill, considering all the benefits that come with it; giving a significant power boost to any class that has Bows and something else for melee in their arsenal, while potentially taking away the advantage crossbows have over other bows, firing into melee; being incredibly thrifty with your weapons without investing in Weapon Saver by using a super powered weapon to make an attack, and then switching to something Steel or Iron for all the counter attacks. And even with Cost, I feel there should be some limitations.
  • On Spy Weapon Ranks: That's actually a really good idea, and I'm ashamed I hadn't considered it, earlier. Allows the Spy to feel more competitive, combat-wise, really cleans up the whole confusion going into Assassin, and Master Spy can still lay claim to having both Swords AND Bows as an advantage.
  • On Momentum and Hot Start: The thing is, I want to keep the general idea of Duke Knights being very effective early in the fight/dangerous when GMs use them as enemies early in a battle, with Great Knights being very effective late in the battle/dangerous when GMs use them as back-line of defence. Free stats was an easy way to do this, based off Slow Burn and Quick Burn from FE13, but if there were a less free-stats way to maintain the theme, I'd be open to ideas. I'll think about it.
  • On the Anima Subcategories: The idea was to always have Fire, Thunder, and Wind separated into their three categories, since in FE's 4&5, 9&10, and 13, there was always that division. Factor in the clear divide between Sword styles (Mercenary Blades vs Myrmidon Wo Dao knock-offs vs FE9&10 Daggers and Knives) and the creation of the subcategories became a thing, some harder to come up with than others, naturally. Speaking of...
  • On Judgment and Druidic Magic (and also Overdeveloped Sense of Self Preservation): The options we discussed in the thread I like, and will be going forward into the next iteration of the handbook. Speaking of...
  • On the GM's Guidebook: Still no progress on that. Sorry :C School's been rough, like, real rough, to the point where I'm starting to worry about my health, so I've been getting that looked at, first.
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Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2147 on: November 12, 2014, 05:21:52 am »

Welcome back! While you were gone I made a FEF. It has quite a load of changes and houserules, most of them are personal tweaks so if you check them you might find something interesting.

On Duke/Great Knights: they already have differences that allow them to perform differently. DK has the special that encourages moving fast and hitting hard, while GK is slower, is promoted from a very tank class and has less MOV. If you want more differences you could focus the promotion bonuses on offensive stats for DK and defensive stats for GK (even if GK already gets the biggest HP boost).

Quickdraw: I thought of that but I don't think it requires more restrictions that being cost. Crossbows still have their niche, and First tier classes don't have much for weapon variety. Still, I made Weapon Saver free so there's still much to discuss :v

By the way, we need a clarification on Sanctuary. I tweaked it in my game after a big argument on IRC, now that there's the first Bishop PC we couldn't agree on how to do it.
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Haspen

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2148 on: November 12, 2014, 05:48:16 am »

  • On the original FEF's wrap on: Congratulations, and thank you for the constant stress testing, leading to such much needed changes as the Guard nerf.

* Haspen feels all warm and fuzzy inside :3
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2149 on: November 12, 2014, 08:19:29 am »

By the way, we need a clarification on Sanctuary. I tweaked it in my game after a big argument on IRC, now that there's the first Bishop PC we couldn't agree on how to do it.

In an effort to make a clarification that everyone understands, I'll describe how I understand what's in the book, and what will consequently be used in my game unless otherwise noted.

Quote from: From the books
Special: Sanctuary
Activated Effect
On their turn, a character with this skill can set up a zone 3 spaces in all four directions around the character. Anyone within this zone is protected from all sides; no attacks, or any unit, can enter the zone. However, this goes for allies as well; allies have to be near the character to receive sanctuary, and their own attacks cannot
pass through the bishop’s zone of protection. The character can move on their turn, and, likewise, the zone will move with them. However, the character cannot move to where the zone of sanctuary would no longer shield someone initially in the circle.

What the Zone does: The Bishop sets up a zone three spaces out by using their action that they might otherwise use to use a staff or attack someone. Any unit who was standing in the radius is now immune to attacks made from outside the zone, or rather attacks can no longer target anyone inside the zone. Any unit outside the zone cannot go inside the zone once it is up. Units inside the zone may leave as part of a standard move action. Attacks can't be made from the inside of the zone to the outside, but mechanically, attacks made from the inside of the zone to the inside of the zone aren't restricted.

How the Zone is maintained: The description says nothing about how long the zone lasts, so there's a lot of assumptions here. First of all, and this is one of the points of conflict Solymr and I had over the skill, I think a field that No-Sells anything you throw at it for 3 spaces out in every direction is pretty powerful, and must be maintained, so the Bishop has to spend their action maintaining the zone each turn. If they get performed, they can do something else as well. If the zone is unmaintained, it falls at the end of the Player Phase after the last maintained phase.

Example: Artur the Bishop used Sanctuary on Phase 1. He maintains on Phase 2. He releases the zone on Phase 3, preparing for battle. The zone falls at the end of player phase 3.

This interpretation makes sense to me, because if the zone just fell apart at the beginning of the next player phase, not only would allies be able to shuffle around with no trouble before the Bishop recreates the zone, but the line about the zone moving with the Bishop would make no sense.

Moving the Zone: The Bishop can only move to and through spaces where there are not units within 3 spaces of the space. Additionally, if there are any units inside the zone, the bishop can only move while not removing them from the field. So, say the Bishop has four allies sitting as far right as they can go and still be in the zone. The bishop, ready to advance through empty territory threatened only by Siege Magic and Ballistae, moves forward. He can only go four spaces, however. Two allies would be forced out of the zone were the Bishop to advance beyond this. Again, performers can help with this, but it is a necessary drawback of the effect.

I think that's that all explained, as I see it.

CecilHoshino

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2150 on: November 12, 2014, 03:45:22 pm »

If Jousting and War Horse are enough of a distinction, then fair enough, I think we can roll with it. Perhaps moving that +2 SPD to +1 SKL, +1 DEF or something like that (or just +1 SPD +1 DEF to let them get SOME speed benefit from their horse). As for Quickdraw...once again, fair enough :3

Now, for Sanctuary...

What the Zone does: You pretty much got it with your understanding of it; it requires the Bishop's action to erect, no one gets in from the outside, attacks from outside cannot be made within, and attacks from inside cannot go out. Although, there was one other stipulation I had in mind: attacks inside the zone cannot be declared, either. It's essentially an "everyone play nice" zone, making the area sacred, and thus, holy ground that won't have blood spilled upon it. There are still several actions that can be taken within the zone: Performances, Healing, and Buffs primarily. These can also affect people outside the Zone of Sanctuary; if a Dance or Play is in range to affect an ally outside the zone, it can; if someone has a Physic Staff or any of the Buff staffs, they can use it from within the zone to target those outside. Debuff and Ailment staffs do not work inside or outside the zone, though; using holy ground as a shield to influence your allies outside might be questionable, or, charitably, pragmatic, but hiding behind sanctuary to cripple your opponents, including driving them insane or poisoning them, is just a dick move.

There's also passive buffs and debuffs that aren't affected by the Zone of Sanctuary: bonuses from Supports, Personal Skills, and Charisma can all affect anyone in range outside the zone, and you can still Daunt an enemy or trigger their own Personal Faults if applicable even from within the Sanctuary.

How the Zone is maintained: Speaking of using Healing and Buff staffs from within the zone, hopefully that means you had another staff user in there with you already; like you assumed, it requires constant Action from the Bishop to maintain it. Even a Performance wouldn't allow the Bishop to take a separate action during their turn; the only other thing they're allowed to do besides Move or Maintain is Trade. Anything else and the zone drops at the end of the current Player Phase.

Moving the Zone: That's the right interpretation.

To prevent a wall of text in the character page, I'll only update Sanctuary to include the line about Maintaining the field. For every other rule and errata we discussed, that will go in the Special Situations rules. With diagrams. I like diagrams.
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Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2151 on: November 12, 2014, 03:57:56 pm »

Well, that prevents abuse of Sanctuary to isolate and eliminate enemies, but there is a slight concern about being able to turtle indefinitely, especially with two healers, and even with medicine. That's why in my game it's less restrictive but only lasts for 1 turn on a cooldown.

Also did you see item icons? Only a few swords are done, but if you likey we can make more :3

(still no idea for nature spirits)
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2152 on: November 12, 2014, 04:21:57 pm »

I'm a little disappointed that trapping enemies inside the sanctuary and beating them down inside is a violation, particularly considering the prevalence of dirty priests in FE, but I understand the ruling. Also not happy about healing staves or performances reaching through the field, but again I understand.

Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2153 on: November 12, 2014, 04:29:13 pm »

SUDDENLY IDEA

Since Sages use HP for call magic and Mages are supposed to be all naturey, I thought of some sort of meditate special: by using an action the Mage can recover some HP.
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2154 on: November 12, 2014, 05:13:01 pm »

SUDDENLY IDEA

Since Sages use HP for call magic and Mages are supposed to be all naturey, I thought of some sort of meditate special: by using an action the Mage can recover some HP.

I like this idea,  but can we get some mechanical specifics?

Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2155 on: November 12, 2014, 05:20:38 pm »

Since Cecil wanted to use STR I thought of using an action to recover HP equal to STR.

But none of the promotions use STR anymore (before 1.3 MK could use the higher or STR or MAG).
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2156 on: November 12, 2014, 05:35:57 pm »

Well center already kinda does that. More importantly that can easily go well beyond hp costs of call magic spells or even weak attacks, which seems really good for a first class skill.

Xanmyral

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2157 on: November 12, 2014, 06:39:22 pm »

So with sanctuary, one could, say, trap a fair number of enemy combatants inside the zone while allies take on those outside? I can see it being used as a sort of "combat kill" tactic, where we use it on a boss while we kill his lackeys or some such.

Or something mischievous, such as trapping a priest without Physic and playing keep away with the enemies. Priest wouldn't be able to reach the wounded allies, although that would require a bit of work in prevention.

I also assume traps are rendered harmless while within a sanctuary?

Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2158 on: November 12, 2014, 07:39:16 pm »

The problem with trapping enemies in the zone is you need to block off their routes of movement, which is likely to tie up a couple units.  Since you can leave the zone at any time and all.

And I suppose it'd keep traps from activating, not that they get used even in games where they were implemented.

Xanmyral

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub!
« Reply #2159 on: November 12, 2014, 09:59:25 pm »

Ah, I figured people in the zone couldn't leave unless it was closed.
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