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[Owlga]

I can't find it but wasn't there another topic just like this one made by a conservative member of this board? What is it with immediately taking the defensive over this anyway? Most people here seem to be willing to give someone a chance so long as they don't go immediately putting their foot quite deeply into their own mouth.

[RedKing]

I'd make the analogy of Orange County Republicans.

For those who don't know, Orange County (California) is heavily Republican, a virtual besieged island of red in a very blue California. Because of this, they often tend to become even more extreme in their conservatism because of the siege mentality. Many of them will quip that they live in the "People's Republic of California", a humorous implication that California is somehow a Communist state because of its (from their POV) extreme liberality.

B12 (in part because of the relatively high LGBT population and in part the relatively high European population) is more liberal than "mainstream" America. So an American conservative would likely have the same feeling of being under siege.

Just my $.02. For what it's worth, people here aren't just partisan. Many disagree with Owlbread's Scottish nationalism or the Russian nationalism on lurid display in the Ukraine thread lately.

[Owlbread]

Actually... most of the people I've met on these boards seem quite supportive of Scottish independence, and if not they're always willing to hear me out. People here are much more willing to talk openly about the referendum here than in Scotland itself, partly because most of the people doing the talking are foreigners with no axe to grind.

Maybe people here don't always agree with the premise of "nationalism" but even then that can usually be settled with a reasonable discussion about the word's definition.

Perhaps if you'd all denounced me as a treasonous separatist I would have become more extreme, given that I was under siege. I don't know what that would even mean though, and I can't really see myself doing that anyway.

But yeah it usually feels like I get a much easier ride than any Republican/Conservative. Whether or not that's actually true and it really is like the Orange County example I don't really know.

[Max White]

I voted Tony Abbott.
Not because he's unpopular- because 90% of the people here have no idea who he is.

You know I would bet the majority of people here know the majority of Barack Obama, David Cameron, Stephen Harper, John Key, Angela Merkel, Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Giorgio Napolitano, Jacob Zuma and hopefully even Xi Jinping. Is it really that unreasonable to imagine that some people out there have heard of Tony Abbott?

[RedKing]

Actually... most of the people I've met on these boards seem quite supportive of Scottish independence, and if not they're always willing to hear me out. People here are much more willing to talk openly about the referendum here than in Scotland itself, partly because most of the people doing the talking are foreigners with no axe to grind.

Maybe people here don't always agree with the premise of "nationalism" but even then that can usually be settled with a reasonable discussion about the word's definition.

Perhaps if you'd all denounced me as a treasonous separatist I would have become more extreme, given that I was under siege. I don't know what that would even mean though, and I can't really see myself doing that anyway.

Treasonous separatist!

oh wait....that would be all Americans, from the British point of view.

[Sheb]

I voted Tony Abbott.
Not because he's unpopular- because 90% of the people here have no idea who he is.

You know I would bet the majority of people here know the majority of Barack Obama, David Cameron, Stephen Harper, John Key, Angela Merkel, Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Giorgio Napolitano, Jacob Zuma and hopefully even Xi Jinping. Is it really that unreasonable to imagine that some people out there have heard of Tony Abbott?

Dang, I had to look up John Key and Napolitano. Actually putting the Italian president in this list makes about as much sense as putting in Elizabeth II. I don't actually know the name of the Italian PM off-hand, but then he changed like one month ago. Plus, I already have to deal with one Italian PM in my home country. :p

[Willfor]

I voted Tony Abbott.
Not because he's unpopular- because 90% of the people here have no idea who he is.

You know I would bet the majority of people here know the majority of Barack Obama, David Cameron, Stephen Harper, John Key, Angela Merkel, Vladimir Putin, Francois Hollande, Giorgio Napolitano, Jacob Zuma and hopefully even Xi Jinping. Is it really that unreasonable to imagine that some people out there have heard of Tony Abbott?

Canadian here. Tony Abbott, isn't he the guy who is trying to bring back knights and dames in Australia?

[Sheb]

Bringing Australia back into the middle-age would be a better description IMO. :p

[Max White]

Dang, I had to look up John Key and Napolitano. Actually putting the Italian president in this list makes about as much sense as putting in Elizabeth II. I don't actually know the name of the Italian PM off-hand, but then he changed like one month ago. Plus, I already have to deal with one Italian PM in my home country. :p

Eh, I couldn't remember the Italian PMs name... Point is Queen Lizard Mark 2 would also be fitting on the list, because I'm pretty sure most people know who she is.

Canadian here. Tony Abbott, isn't he the guy who is trying to bring back knights and dames in Australia?

I swear, if that is all he is remembered for then history is a most kind mistress.

[scrdest]

Might also be that moderates are not devoted enough to risk provoking The Dogpile Of Doom upon themselves, whereas those who hold extreme positions are more likely to Give A Shit enough.

[kaijyuu]

I'd like to point out that if ya'll were acting polite and respectful it wouldn't matter how many people responded. A "dogpile" implies jumping on someone, and whether one person is jumping or a dozen, there's still the problem of people jumping on others.

[GlyphGryph]

I'd like to point out that if ya'll were acting polite and respectful it wouldn't matter how many people responded.

I'm not sure how true this is. A dozen people all disagreeing, politely and respectfully, can still easily be considered a dogpile in the eyes of someone who is seeing a massive and seemingly monolithic front spring up.

And someone in such a situation is likely to get defensive, and simply by virtue of of being in the minority, any rise in hostility as a result will be met by at least a portion of those in the majority feeling aggrieved and responding in kind, which might be nothing in a one on one situation but can suddenly seem a lot more intimidating when there's a lot of people doing it.

And let's be honest - it's often less of a dogpile on people than it is a dogpile on arguments, and there are some arguments that most assuredly deserve to be "jumped on", and other arguments that will be simply because they are so poorly put together that it's obvious what the flaws are.

There is no amount of "politeness and respect" that can make a wall of opposition seem friendly.

[kaijyuu]

Well you got me when it comes to sheer number of people.

I'll disagree on this point though:

it's often less of a dogpile on people than it is a dogpile on arguments

Remember, implying that agreeing with an idea makes you dumb is still an attack on people. They can't respond without having to also defend themselves, which obviously is bad.

[Flying Dice]

I'm with GlyphGryph on this one. Most of the "dogpiling" that happens here isn't aggressive or confrontational (at least intentionally), but rather a side effect of what happens when one side of a given issue has much broader support. I'm pretty familiar with the feeling--I live, work, and attend university in places dominated by Christian conservatives, and any time I get into a discussion about politics or religion I immediately find myself vastly outnumbered, which can be a tad overwhelming even if everyone is being polite and respectful.

That said, from time to time there are situations like that where it's a genuine attack on an opinion, but those tend to be oriented on things which are genuinely hurtful or offensive, even if they aren't intentional flamebait. I imagine that being surrounded by people who aren't likeminded probably helps create the impression of hostility, but I don't think (m)any of us are genuinely trying to attack and belittle each other. Maybe it's just me, but argument for the sake of argument is a worthwhile activity, so long as the focus remains on challenging ideas rather than individuals.

[Mr. Strange]

A dozen people all disagreeing, politely and respectfully, can still easily be considered a dogpile in the eyes of someone who is seeing a massive and seemingly monolithic front spring up.

And when those dozen people comment and agree with each other, talking about whoever they dissagree with and poke at his argument together it will seem even more like dogpiling.
That, and you guys post wall of text a minute. Every minute. Non English speakers will feel overwhelmed with that.