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[flabort]

So NQT, how goes the mysterious construction  ?

[flabort]

In an elaborate setup-dependant gambit, which would only WORK if the player actually wound up scum, if they didn't read their role PM they could actually play as town until LYLO, and then, believing themselves to be town, lynch another town and win the game for scum. However, this is a meta discussion that should be taken to the out of game banter thread.

In an elaborate setup-dependant gambit, which would only WORK if the player actually wound up scum, if they didn't read their role PM they could actually play as town until LYLO, and then, believing themselves to be town, lynch another town and win the game for scum.

This (not reading one's PM) would be an incredible violation of the Play to Win rule, and I can't see many mods here responding kindly to it.

They would be playing to win; it's just like aggressively bussing your teammate, or forgetting to use your jailkeep/cop powers.
And the guy would technically still win at the end if he played to hunt the most suspicious, scummy person; he'd inevitably hit his own teammate if he were scum, and then win the game in LYLO. And if he were town, he'd wind up lynching both scum and winning that way too.

An elaborate gambit, designed to win "by mistake", but only able to be pulled off by a player with substantial skill.

[Cheeetar]

Except that power roles would screw them over, as would people lynching them - if it became apparent to their teammates that the non-role-pm-reading person wasn't reading/posting in the scum chat, and they weren't voting on who to kill at night, they'd probably pretty aggressively bus the person.

Also, if they were a cop/jailkeeper themself, and didn't read their role 'just in case it was scum', their townie teammates would be pretty annoyed at them. It could work! But the chances are it wouldn't, and it'd be very frustrating in every occasion and probably make people not want to play with them.

An elaborate gambit, designed to win "by mistake", but only able to be pulled off by a player with substantial skill.

It would only be attempted by a player of minimal skill.

[zombie urist]

You can't play to win without knowing your wincon.

[TolyK]

Actually...
Given perfect play, you are actually always playing to your wincon.

Look at it this way:
- You don't want to die both as scum and town
- You want to lynch people both as town and scum

Given a mountainous game, if you play perfectly as town and badly as scum, it's much better to play blind with the assumption of town.
If you're scum, your teammates should play as if you were unknown to them and were town, possibly bussing you (but not out of sheer spite :p).


Of course, since nobody plays perfectly, and there are usually power roles that will stop you in your tracks, it's a bad idea not to read your role PM. Really not a good idea.

[Cheeetar]

Well, no. Being the informed minority is the biggest advantage scum has. 'Perfect' play as the scum isn't playing as a town would, it's just appearing to play as a town would.

[TolyK]

One of the assumptions was that you play perfectly (seem as 100% town) only when you don't know who you are.

So yeah.

[Cheeetar]

That's a silly assumption

[4maskwolf]

One of the assumptions was that you play perfectly (seem as 100% town) only when you don't know who you are.

So yeah.

See, it's funny, because I play a better town game as scum than I do as town.

[webadict]

One of the assumptions was that you play perfectly (seem as 100% town) only when you don't know who you are.

So yeah.

See, it's funny, because I play a better town game as scum than I do as town.

It helps that you know exactly who scum is in those cases.q

[TolyK]

Exactly - scum can be found out because they know too much. That's the whole premise of the game.

[flabort]

Heh. In most highly powered games, the Mod will allow conditional actions; in an open set-up like the Beginners Mafia, where you know all the possible roles, if you intend to play without knowing you role you can use the condition "if I have it," which allows you to complete the illusion.
If you get a result back, well, are you the town cop or scum cop? You still don't know and can assume town, as long as the target for both was the same. Doctors don't get results, and the scum kill could be coincidence.

So we need a player of minimal skill, but the incredible potential to be a player of perfection by the end of day 1; because only they would try it, and only they could succeed.

Maybe.

I would try it but donn't think I could succeed.

[Jack A T]

Heh. In most highly powered games, the Mod will allow conditional actions; in an open set-up like the Beginners Mafia, where you know all the possible roles, if you intend to play without knowing you role you can use the condition "if I have it," which allows you to complete the illusion.
If you get a result back, well, are you the town cop or scum cop? You still don't know and can assume town, as long as the target for both was the same. Doctors don't get results, and the scum kill could be coincidence.

Town cop and scum rolecop are completely different roles with completely different results.  No doctors in current BMs.  Scum actions are generally sent in through scumchat.

[Toaster]

I often write up my first post in a game before looking at the role PM.

I look before I *submit* it, though.  Gotta claim Miller if I have it.

[TheDarkStar]

I can now imagine a game of Mafia where almost no one knows their alignment (at first), but they don't know who does and most don't know that everyone else also doesn't know.