Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dariush]

...but then why didn't you point that out to me when I mistakenly spent two actions on river crossing this turn?

Also, I rather dislike rule changes only being documented as one word in the middle of a reply to another matter. :-/

I change my turn to:
Expand 133
Brutal Raid 146
Expand 148
Expand 132

[notquitethere]

Everyone Sorry if it hasn't been clear: rivers defend against conquering, not expanding and raiding. Originally they effected expanded but I decided against that early on but didn't make a public proclamation to that effect.

Dariush

...but then why didn't you point that out to me when I mistakenly spent two actions on river crossing this turn?

Sorry— I would have, I just hadn't got round to looking at the specifics of your go yet.

Also, I rather dislike rule changes only being documented as one word in the middle of a reply to another matter. :-/

That's fair: I've tried not to change any rules since the game started but I should have been clearer about the changes that I had made.

I change my turn to:
Expand 133
Brutal Raid 146
Expand 148
Expand 132

That's all perfectly legal.

[monk12]

Babe would have relished the fresh spring air, if he'd been outside. Fortunately, however, he was inspecting a series of tunnels and interconnected fortifications linking the holdings of Babelon; what joys could spring air bring that would compare to the glorious destiny of the Builders? Babe frowned at a passing pair of commoners, each clutching their meager ration of raw fish and potato. As much as he would like to cloak the earth in an urban shroud, his people must come first. Mentally, Babe crafted the orders that would feed a new generation of Babelonians.


Grow 40
Expand 38
Tower 38

[Dariush]

Proposal: only allow to drain rivers when owning both tiles which this river separates.

[monk12]

Proposal: only allow to drain rivers when owning both tiles which this river separates.

Why? This just really buffs the Aquatic power, which doesn't really need buffing.

[GreatWyrmGold]

In theory. In practice, I'm discovering fewer and fewer uses for its power.

Especially since flooding a city or whatever does nothing to it.

[Dariush]

Especially since flooding a city or whatever does nothing to it.

"Hmm, my dear wife, it seems that something has happened to our yard."

"But what could it be, my dear husband?"

"I'm not sure. Wait, wasn't our city built on dry land and not submerged yesterday?"

"I cannot say I recall. Would you like some more tea?"

"Yes please."

[monk12]

In theory. In practice, I'm discovering fewer and fewer uses for its power.

Especially since flooding a city or whatever does nothing to it.

Defensive rivers wherever you want them, and you can wash out enemy fields/foraging forests. I still feel it will be a potent late game power, it's just less useful in the initial landgrab phase when you're more focused on building your infrastructure than dicking with the supply chain of somebody else, since nobody has any real enemies at this phase.

[Dariush]

Defensive rivers wherever you want them

Much defensive use they are if the enemy can just drain them whenever he feels like it. Which is, in fact, the whole reason I proposed the amendment to rules. As to the aquatics being OP, the solution is simple and obvious: restrict their irrigation power to tile borders they either encompass or border. It's kinda odd that it's the only special heresy action that can be used anywhere in the world, in any case.

[notquitethere]

The global reach of Aquatic is wholly unintentional-- will be amended for next time.

[monk12]

Defensive rivers wherever you want them

Much defensive use they are if the enemy can just drain them whenever he feels like it. Which is, in fact, the whole reason I proposed the amendment to rules. As to the aquatics being OP, the solution is simple and obvious: restrict their irrigation power to tile borders they either encompass or border. It's kinda odd that it's the only special heresy action that can be used anywhere in the world, in any case.

The action it takes to drain the river is equivalent to the action it takes to attack across it; the enemy is slowed the same, and it doesn't save them all that much. It just feels odd to me to start proposing solutions to problems that haven't actually arisen.

[Dariush]

The global reach of Aquatic is wholly unintentional-- will be amended for next time.

Ah, so you only change rules mid-game when you are in position to immediatly benefit from them despite them being broken and not used so far. I see.

The action it takes to drain the river is equivalent to the action it takes to attack across it;

If you drain before attacking, you save yourself one guy. If I read the combat rules correctly, that is.

the enemy is slowed the same, and it doesn't save them all that much.

Yes, but if you drained a border river, you were probably going to attack the same turn, and thus were probably going to take this tile.

It just feels odd to me to start proposing solutions to problems that haven't actually arisen.

It's called planning ahead.

[monk12]

The action it takes to drain the river is equivalent to the action it takes to attack across it;

If you drain before attacking, you save yourself one guy. If I read the combat rules correctly, that is.

No, I don't think so.

Take over a neighbouring contested territory. This costs +1 extra action per defence of terrain. Both the conquered region and the conquerers lose 1 population, to a minimum of 1. All fields and fortifications in the conquered hex are destroyed.

Rivers
Colour: Light Blue
Defence: +1 when conquering civilisation has to cross the river to enter the hex

The population loss is a flat 1 pop per territory conquered. You can either use one action to drain the river and then attack, or not drain the river and use one action to get over the +1 defense afforded by the river. Quite frankly, it's more advantageous to leave the river there so that the Merfolk can't counter-conquer back into your original territory.

the enemy is slowed the same, and it doesn't save them all that much.

Yes, but if you drained a border river, you were probably going to attack the same turn, and thus were probably going to take this tile.

No probably about it; the combat is completely deterministic. The tile is definitely taken if the enemy is willing to pay the price; the river makes it more expensive to attack, which serves as a deterrent and gives you an edge in the action economy. Consider the following:

Aquatic owns a border plains with a fortification and a defensive river on the enemy side; conquering this tile takes 3 actions for the enemy, one for the conquer action, one for the fort and one for the defense of the river. Successfully conquering the tile eliminates the fortifications. The Aquatic turn comes up for a counterattack, and they only have to invest 1 action in taking it back; there is no fort, and there is no river on their side; if the enemy drained the defensive river, then the Aquatic have the option of using their extra action to return things to the status quo (and since they're the only ones who can Channel, they're the only ones who can make this choice,) or to continue attacking into their neighbor's territory.

Obviously if it's winter the enemy can invest another action in trying to fortify their new holdings to make it more expensive for the Aquatic to counterattack, but that just means the enemy needs to invest 4 actions to take and hold their tile while the Aquatic player just needs 2 to take it back; the gap is the same. The point is that it takes an extra action for the enemy to be aggressive, and there's effectively a 2 action swing depending on how well prepared the Aquatic player is, narrowing (or widening, if the enemy is foolish and the Merfolk are already on the + side of that equation) the action deficit.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Defensive rivers wherever you want them, and you can wash out enemy fields/foraging forests. I still feel it will be a potent late game power, it's just less useful in the initial landgrab phase when you're more focused on building your infrastructure than dicking with the supply chain of somebody else, since nobody has any real enemies at this phase.

Defensive rivers do a little, I guess, and being able to flood enemy fields slows them some, but compared to powers that help with said landgrab and the like...after all, having a productive edge in the action economy doesn't help much if the other guy has way more raw materials.

[notquitethere]

Sorry gang-- today's update was eaten by 504s and I'm stuck on my phone until sometime on Tuesday. If someone else has Paint skills and would like to update the map and roll on the next month then by all means go ahead.