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[Dariush]

Can I scorch earth under a city? If no, then
Brutal Raid 148 (+2 actions)
Brutal Raid 133 (+2 actions)
City 135
Drain 133-134
If yes, then
Brutal Raid 148 (+2 actions)
Brutal Raid 133 (+2 actions)
City 134
City 135
I can do this and start next season with 4 pop, right?

[notquitethere]

Dariush
Not quite: Cities increase your minimum and maximum population by one, they can only push your population up to the new minimum level. You're at 2/(1-2), so two cities would leave you at 3/(3-4). So two cities would give you 3 population (with room to grow).

Cerapa

I forgot that you can fortify tiles.

I would like to change the treehouse hugging to treehouse reinforcing if it's not a big problem.

That's fine, that's why I mentioned it.

[notquitethere]

Dariush—

Can I 1) scorch earth under a city? 2) Drain during the winter? If the answer to the first question is 'no' and to the second 'yes', then
Brutal Raid 148 (+2 actions)
Brutal Raid 133 (+2 actions)
City 135
Drain 133-134
If it's any other combination of answers, then
Brutal Raid 148 (+2 actions)
Brutal Raid 133 (+2 actions)
City 134
City 135
3. I can do this and start next season with 4 pop, right?

1. You can scorch earth under a city.
2. Drain is an Improve action so can be performed during Winter.
3. You'll start the next turn with 3 pop, like I just explained

I think you've still got two actions left over from the brutal raiding: you used your two actions from population to gain four actions from raiding, you used one of these actions to build a city and one to drain. scrap that, I forgot the Brutal Raiding costs 2 actions.

[notquitethere]

So I'm taking Dariush's action for this season to be:
Brutal Raid 148 (+2 actions)
Brutal Raid 133 (+2 actions)
City 134
City 135

Just waiting for our Dark Pal and I'll bring on the New Year.

[Dariush]

So I literally wasted one action and lost two more by not gaining population in time on growing stuff instead of building cities. Splendid balance. :-/
Proposal: make city building cost two actions and start everyone off with 2 pop.

[notquitethere]

Cities being more expensive to build is probably a good change, I'll add it to the list. Not sure about people starting with two actions, though it would give everyone more stuff to do in the early game. Ultimately, you can't reach the upper-limit of your maximum population by just building cities, so I still think farming is a fine way to go about things.

Balance in these things is best achieved through iterative play-testing.

[darkpaladin109]

Fortify 64 and 78.

[Dariush]

Cities being more expensive to build is probably a good change, I'll add it to the list. Not sure about people starting with two actions, though it would give everyone more stuff to do in the early game. Ultimately, you can't reach the upper-limit of your maximum population by just building cities, so I still think farming is a fine way to go about things.

Uh, nope. Let's say a spring rolls around and I am currently at my minimum population. I have two choices for increasing the population: either build a city or farm. If I pick the former, I am still at the minimum population (which is now one higher) and I start off summer with +1 guy. Next spring I'll still have a choice. If I farm, not only do I only get this guy at the end of AUTUMN, but also I'll stop being at minimum population and thus will be forced to also farm the next spring, unless I want to have an action having been wasted, which is exactly what happened.

So, to recap, my proposals about cities: cities only increase minimum population, cost 2 actions, everyone starts off with 2 guys, humans start off with 3. This also nicely balances out their perceived OPness (since having 1.5 times as many actions as other people is much better than twice as many).

[GreatWyrmGold]

So I literally wasted one action and lost two more by not gaining population in time on growing stuff instead of building cities. Splendid balance. :-/

Ayup. And I'm wasting actions by not building cities so I can farm.

[notquitethere]

Uh, nope. Let's say a spring rolls around and I am currently at my minimum population. I have two choices for increasing the population: either build a city or farm. If I pick the former, I am still at the minimum population (which is now one higher) and I start off summer with +1 guy. Next spring I'll still have a choice. If I farm, not only do I only get this guy at the end of AUTUMN, but also I'll stop being at minimum population and thus will be forced to also farm the next spring, unless I want to have an action having been wasted, which is exactly what happened.

A good point, though things might change once players begin to run out places to build their cities.

I'll revisit your proposals at the end of the game when we've a clearer idea what the long-term effects of the different strategies are. Are you sure you mean 'only increase minimum population'? Your max population would then just be the number of tiles you have and it's impossible to build more cities than you have tiles...

(Also, will roll us on to the next season in just a moment)

[GreatWyrmGold]

A good point, though things might change once players begin to run out places to build their cities.

...which are mostly in the only terrain type one can farm.

[notquitethere]

Year Two - Spring

The winter was short and industrious. Scouts from each of the civilisations warned their leaders of the growing settlements across the island and most defended themselves, burning tracts of land, raising cities and setting forth fortifications. All preparing for the second year...

Spoiler: Year 2 - Spring (click to show/hide)

In Spring you can: Grow, Expand, Raze, Raid, Dismantle, as well as doing a heresy-specific action. As you can expand this turn, you should post in turn order when there's a chance the person first in the order might contest the same territory.

Turn order:
DarkPaladin [pop.1]
GreatWyrmGold [pop.2]
a1s [pop.2]
cerapa [pop.3]
Dariush [pop.3]
Monk12 [pop.3]
NQT [pop.4]

Players

Spoiler: 1. The Accord - NQT (click to show/hide)

Civilisation Name: The Accord
Colour: Black
Heresy: Heterodox
Species : Humans
Population: 4
Population Range: 3-6
Territory: 3
Cities: 2
(+1 cap for being human)

Spoiler: 2. The Council Of Trees - cerapa (click to show/hide)

Civilisation Name: The Council Of Trees
Colour: Lime Green
Heresy: Bountiful
Species : Ents
Population: 3
Population Range: 3-4
Territory: 2
Cities: 2

Spoiler: 3. The Internet Trolls - DarkPaladin (click to show/hide)

Civilisation Name: Internet Trolls
Colour: Eye searing yellow
Heresy: Shaker
Species : Trolls
Population: 1
Population Range: 1-3
Territory: 3
Cities: 0

Spoiler: 4. The Lakers - GreatWyrmGold (click to show/hide)

Color: Blue
Heresy: Aquatic
Species: Merfolk
Population: 2/(1-2)
Territory: 2
Cities: 0

Spoiler: 5. The Sand Empire - Dariush (click to show/hide)

Civilisation Name: The Sand Empire;
Colour: Orange;
Heresy: Levellers;
Species: Djinn;
Population: 3/(3-4)
Territory: 2
Cities: 2

Spoiler: 6. The Republic of Babelon - Monk12 (click to show/hide)

Colour: Purple
Heresy: Builder
Species : Swine
Population: 3
Population Range: 3-5
Territory: 3
Cities: 2

Spoiler: 7. Pearly Swine - a1s (click to show/hide)

Civilisation Name: Pearly Swine
Colour: Pink
Heresy: Bountiful
Species : Swine
Population: 2
Population Range: 2-3
Territory: 2
Cities: 1

As ever, inform me if I've made a mistake. Remember that cities increase your minimum and maximum population, but they only increase your actual pop if it's below the new minimum.

A good point, though things might change once players begin to run out places to build their cities.

...which are mostly in the only terrain type one can farm.

That's deliberate. Also remember that fields can be grown and harvested every year, but you only get the benefit of a city once.

[GreatWyrmGold]

However, you can only get so much population from fields...equal to the number of tiles you have. And the tiles you farm? Also the tiles you build cities on.
If you could farm on city tiles, this would be less of an issue.

Plant both tiles.

[notquitethere]

However, you can only get so much population from fields...equal to the number of tiles you have. And the tiles you farm? Also the tiles you build cities on.
If you could farm on city tiles, this would be less of an issue.

These are all reasonable points. I think lowering the usefulness of cities somewhat will make farming more useful.

[cerapa]

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