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[Empiricist]

I should theoretically be able to pull a Forgotten Art and replace people's legs with pigs or clown heads if they piss me off now, so yes!

Does Xan even know what a pig or clown looks like? Because I have the sinking feeling that he'd instead spawn some sort of eldritch horror based off of his twisted imagination of what such entities are

[Xantalos]

No, I'd probably just turn them into an enormous nose or something similar.

[Unholy_Pariah]

Oh wow, so no-one wants a get out of medical malpractice free card eh?

Well then, its gonna suck to be you guys if you get injured coz i dunno how to work this thing safely.

[piecewise]

One thing I can do, if you guys would like, Is whenever I roll, I'll also include a short description of how the roll would have gone if we used the new system. I honestly don't roll character actions much  so it's not too big a deal.

Yes please, if possible; maybe even have a whole mission's worth of playtesting - if we do come over to a new system (which even I might be beginning to appreciate), we'd rather have playtested it a lot.

A question: what would happen to Maurice's/Mesk's 'medical expertise' perk?

It would probably remain the same because it's special, unless you wanna change it.

@Kriellya, talking about dynamic bonuses.

I disagree with you about dynamic bonuses being a poor idea.  They make logical sense, especially for newbies, because you're spending the time mentally preparing yourself.  It's much easier to do something if you take it slow and think about it, rather than rushing through the procedure.

They make game sense too- sure, you can use a dynamic bonus to remove the 33% chance of big mistakes.  Or, you could try twice, risking those mistakes, but potentially getting twice as much done too.  This applies even more to higher level people, who wouldn't risk much even on a one.

I do think that trying easier things should reduce the chance of outright failure.  Jim, for example, shouldn't have a small chance of failing to heat a cup of tea by ten degrees, even if he doesn't prepare.  He should just succeed.  Now, if he tries to catch a passing airplane and ram it into the ground, THAT should have a significant chance of failure.  Or burning a massive hole straight through a blast door.  With the current system, he wouldn't be able to fail, except possibly from running out of mind points.


Also, Pyro's star wasn't caused by an overshoot.  PW didn't even roll.  Pyro's star was entirely caused by Pyro thinking that heating several million cubic meters wasn't a terrible idea.  To be fair, it was the first -9 event, so he couldn't have known quite how badly that would go.

One thing we could do to make dynamic bonuses make more sense is force players to explain them. To give some context as to exactly what the fuck they're doing that gives them bonuses.  AND how about this: The dynamic bonuses are only available to people with +0 or lower in the stat they're trying to use. We'll assume that if you're at +1, you've already got the knowledge and skill and that any amount of prep won't significantly increase that.

This would let +0 newbies get the benifit of prep without causing every turn to be high end players punctuating a turn with "And charge a bonus".

Looks like I'm going to have to rewrite my templates...

Not much time to discuss. Currently ambivalent. I'd like to see a more definite description of the New system.

@Piecewise: If there's something else you'd like to change in the ER system, you could use this as an opportunity to do so. You could even rebuild the entire thing from scratch. Not saying that you should, just saying that this gives you the opportunity to change many things that need changing.

One thing I have been thinking about is the weirdness of boosting physical stats and having those stats carry over into new bodies. That is something that is a complete gameplay convention and makes zero sense. But I'm not sure how to change that.

_{do we have to use a d6?}

That is a good question, though unless someone can come up with some damn good rules using other dice, I'd rather shoot for something that still uses RTD rules, if only so this giant shift in mechanics isn't even more drastic.

Effects similar to the one she uses are actually available to players. Well, to one particular player in a certain circumstance.

Is that player still (somewhat) active? Or could it be someone who has been inactive for a while such as Grate or STEPHEN HAWKING?

I'll say that they're still active. I'll even point out the end of that sentence again.

What happened to all the angry shouting people with guns who burst into the hallway out of R&D and arrested a guy? Did they just go away?

Give it a turn. Everyone over by the R&D is either dead, almost dead or not posting so not seeing anything.

They should be walking up behind you by the end of next turn.

[SeriousConcentrate]

One thing I have been thinking about is the weirdness of boosting physical stats and having those stats carry over into new bodies. That is something that is a complete gameplay convention and makes zero sense. But I'm not sure how to change that.

This is honestly why I generally don't put any points into physical stats. It seemed weird for standard issue bodies (robot and synthflesh) to be able to get stronger/faster/more durable just because of the brain in them. I guess you could handwave it as a cloned body 'remembering' how it should be from the brain, and robo-bodies to just be getting upgrades between missions, but I don't know enough about synthflesh to say anything about it.

Hell, maybe you should use that as incentive for people to keep flesh bodies: they can get unlimited physical upgrades. Robo-bodies can get a set amount of physical upgrades (like maybe a total of +5 across the physical stats, so you can customize your robo-body) since they have the benefit of being harder to kill and such. Synthflesh get pretty good physical bonuses (maybe +3 across the board?) but can't upgrade at all, so they're good for people like Jim or Pancaek who need all their points for their mental stats and are willing to part with their tokens to cover their weaknesses, but there's the possibility someone could be stronger/faster/more durable by training and infinite potential of the human body and so forth and so on.

Also I don't know if I've ever charged a bonus. I know I do it extremely rarely if ever.

[Toaster]

Even a shift to a d8 or a d10 would reduce randomness, though you'd have to define logical bounds.  A normalized dice roll (2dsomething) would REALLY reduce randomness, though I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for.

A d8 or d10 would have the ironic effect of making a +1 bonus less bad.

Might as well take a crack at it: any numbers in brackets mean equivalent to the old d6.

1  Epic failure [1]
2  Failure [2]
3  Mostly failure [2.5 or so]
4  Partial success [3]
5  Generally successful [3.5]
6  Success [4]
7  Perfect success [5]
8  Overshoot [6]

If we define failure as 1-3, then the odds of failure are about the same (32.5% vs 33%) and overshot odds are reduced (12.5% vs 16.7%).  What picks up is the odds of a partial success, so to really balance it a d8 5 may need to equate more like a d6 3.7 and a d8 6 equate more of a d6 4.2 or so.  It's down to GM interpretation.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Maybe we could introduce the concept of defaulting on a skill check?

I.e., if you want to, you can call your roll to be an automatic 3. Only action rolls apply, of course - dodging would be hard to call in advance.

This represents a character just using whatever training or natural talent he has to carry him through a task. A medic at +1 skill attempting to do something basic like applying a bandage to a wound, could theoretically just toss random chance out the window and dress the wound properly - with the new system of outcome based on difficulty, a roll of 3 will still result in a successfully dressed wound. It won't be fancy, but it'll do the job. Similarly, a soldier with +2 Conventional can just say he fires at the enemy - it will be a decent shot on center mass, that the enemy can dodge or its armor can deflect, but it won't be the kind of spectacular catastrophe that can result from an overshot if he were to try and push his luck.

Dynamic bonuses may or may not apply. Probably shouldn't. Maybe also a special case for space magic, as it's generally poorly understood and inherently somewhat unpredictable.

In D&D, it used to be known as "taking a 10". There it's usually assumed that a character will take the needed time to be careful and do what's needed properly. If using it in combat is deemed unbalancing, perhaps it could be used instead of the dynamic bonus? Call taking a mediocre roll in advance, and get it on the next turn.

[Harry Baldman]

One thing I have been thinking about is the weirdness of boosting physical stats and having those stats carry over into new bodies. That is something that is a complete gameplay convention and makes zero sense. But I'm not sure how to change that.

This is honestly why I generally don't put any points into physical stats. It seemed weird for standard issue bodies (robot and synthflesh) to be able to get stronger/faster/more durable just because of the brain in them. I guess you could handwave it as a cloned body 'remembering' how it should be from the brain, and robo-bodies to just be getting upgrades between missions, but I don't know enough about synthflesh to say anything about it.

Hell, maybe you should use that as incentive for people to keep flesh bodies: they can get unlimited physical upgrades. Robo-bodies can get a set amount of physical upgrades (like maybe a total of +5 across the physical stats, so you can customize your robo-body) since they have the benefit of being harder to kill and such. Synthflesh get pretty good physical bonuses (maybe +3 across the board?) but can't upgrade at all, so they're good for people like Jim or Pancaek who need all their points for their mental stats and are willing to part with their tokens to cover their weaknesses, but there's the possibility someone could be stronger/faster/more durable by training and infinite potential of the human body and so forth and so on.

Also I don't know if I've ever charged a bonus. I know I do it extremely rarely if ever.

I've always perceived Strength points as somebody's adeptness at applying their strength in the case of robobodies. Not sure how to explain endurance, though.

Also, to perhaps suggest more, how about getting a fresh standard-issue robobody resetting all your physical stats to 3 (+0), maybe less, possibly depending on a roll for body acceptance? That'd probably be an adequate penalty, sort of how there used to be a chance to lose stats and skills when you got revived. Synthflesh, like you said, would set physical stats at a certain bonus and so forth.

Not sure I like that someone can be stronger than synthflesh while remaining normal, though. But that's an unlikely event at best.

Even a shift to a d8 or a d10 would reduce randomness, though you'd have to define logical bounds.  A normalized dice roll (2dsomething) would REALLY reduce randomness, though I'm guessing that's not what you're looking for.

A d8 or d10 would have the ironic effect of making a +1 bonus less bad.

Might as well take a crack at it: any numbers in brackets mean equivalent to the old d6.

1  Epic failure [1]
2  Failure [2]
3  Mostly failure [2.5 or so]
4  Partial success [3]
5  Generally successful [3.5]
6  Success [4]
7  Perfect success [5]
8  Overshoot [6]

If we define failure as 1-3, then the odds of failure are about the same (32.5% vs 33%) and overshot odds are reduced (12.5% vs 16.7%).  What picks up is the odds of a partial success, so to really balance it a d8 5 may need to equate more like a d6 3.7 and a d8 6 equate more of a d6 4.2 or so.  It's down to GM interpretation.

This seems a bit unnecessary, considering that the adjustment to odds is minute, and having bonuses not interfere with the rolls themselves kind of solves the overshooting issue much more adequately, although it is admittedly more complicated than just expanding the d6. I think it'd probably be wiser to try the straight d6 plus situational result adjustment first before going for a dice pool expansion.

[SeriousConcentrate]

That's a balance thing. If there were no downsides to synthflesh, there would never be a reason to not get it if you could afford it.

[AoshimaMichio]

Maybe we could introduce the concept of defaulting on a skill check?

I.e., if you want to, you can call your roll to be an automatic 3. Only action rolls apply, of course - dodging would be hard to call in advance.

Now where is fun in that?

That's a balance thing. If there were no downsides to synthflesh, there would never be a reason to not get it if you could afford it.

Other than it's ugly. And hard to find clothes proper size. You should know.

[kj1225]

That's a balance thing. If there were no downsides to synthflesh, there would never be a reason to not get it if you could afford it.

Other than it's ugly. And hard to find clothes proper size. You should know.

You say that like it's actually important.

[AoshimaMichio]

That's a balance thing. If there were no downsides to synthflesh, there would never be a reason to not get it if you could afford it.

Other than it's ugly. And hard to find clothes proper size. You should know.

You say that like it's actually important.

It's important for Ulrich.

[Radio Controlled]

One thing we could do to make dynamic bonuses make more sense is force players to explain them. To give some context as to exactly what the fuck they're doing that gives them bonuses.  AND how about this: The dynamic bonuses are only available to people with +0 or lower in the stat they're trying to use. We'll assume that if you're at +1, you've already got the knowledge and skill and that any amount of prep won't significantly increase that.
This would let +0 newbies get the benefit of prep without causing every turn to be high end players punctuating a turn with "And charge a bonus".

If we do wanna keep the dynamic bonus, then these restrictions seem ok to me, though it does mean that pw will have to be more vigilant.

One thing I have been thinking about is the weirdness of boosting physical stats and having those stats carry over into new bodies. That is something that is a complete gameplay convention and makes zero sense. But I'm not sure how to change that.

As has been said, you could start rolling again for people who temp die so they could lose points in certain stats to show this. As for people who willingly move into another type of body... It'd be difficult. Stuff like dex can be explained by saying you don't just need agility, but also need to know how to use it (if I suddenly got a perfect body, I still couldn't do world class gymnastics, cause I have no idea how to place my hands or move my legs and such). But for strength, endurance and charisma and such it's weird, yes.

Also, I again say that I think normal robobodies should cost 5 tokens or so, due to the benefits they grant at virtually no downsides. Not being allowed to advance physical stats is also an option, but honestly, most people use gear to cover that (except maybe dex).

That is a good question, though unless someone can come up with some damn good rules using other dice, I'd rather shoot for something that still uses RTD rules, if only so this giant shift in mechanics isn't even more drastic.

We should totally turn this thing into a proper rpg someday. After all, it isn't like other games set in a standard 'generic fantasy world no. 59', it has an internal logic and lore of its own.


Small question: am I right that stat boosting pills would still work in the same way, but now just increase your 'adeptness'? Secondly, would there be any sort of practical cap to levels? As in, does increasing from +4 to +5 actually add anything worthwhile, or is it a 'diminishing returns' sort of thing?

[kj1225]

That's a balance thing. If there were no downsides to synthflesh, there would never be a reason to not get it if you could afford it.

Other than it's ugly. And hard to find clothes proper size. You should know.

You say that like it's actually important.

It's important for Ulrich.

Who?

And I support the advancement limitations on robobodies and synthflesh. No this has nothing to do with my character being a purist.

[Toaster]

I read "purist" as "priest" and was really confused for a second.