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[GreatWyrmGold]

It's hard to tell from simply glancing at the rules, but I would guess a lot of the imbalances and such come from the fact that powers are rather arbitrary in how much energy they use and can be completely OP at times, forcing the GM to create horrifically powerful monsters which no one can beat as a counter?

Pretty much, yeah. Also, noncombat challenges aren't challenging due to other powers. (Such as the characters with vaguely-defined creation powers.)

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.

Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

[Tavik Toth]

It's hard to tell from simply glancing at the rules, but I would guess a lot of the imbalances and such come from the fact that powers are rather arbitrary in how much energy they use and can be completely OP at times, forcing the GM to create horrifically powerful monsters which no one can beat as a counter?

Pretty much, yeah. Also, noncombat challenges aren't challenging due to other powers. (Such as the characters with vaguely-defined creation powers.)

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.

Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

It's the damage rule PW uses for damage.

[Caellath]

Or something like Mesk's artifact, which wasn't really dangerous but changed him quite a bit.

Mesk's was from a purple box. I think all green box objects seen so far don't seem interested in living inside the owner's body and a few were protective items. For example, not putting the cuff on may create a shield that'll destroy anything around it, including the owner in case he doesn't have it on his body.

If Simus doesn't respond, wander around in search of clothes and answers.
Clothes first, though, it's chilly.

I don't think you ever edited your original post or posted a new message.

[piecewise]

It's hard to tell from simply glancing at the rules, but I would guess a lot of the imbalances and such come from the fact that powers are rather arbitrary in how much energy they use and can be completely OP at times, forcing the GM to create horrifically powerful monsters which no one can beat as a counter?

Pretty much, yeah. Also, noncombat challenges aren't challenging due to other powers. (Such as the characters with vaguely-defined creation powers.)

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.

Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

Alright sounds like a bad case of dragon ball z syndrome. Somewhat inevitable in high power, long running games but here's what I'd do to reign it in.

1. If them using their powers to easily bypass mundane non-combat challenges is a problem, then take the powers away. There are a variety of ways to do that, the simplest of which is just saying "Nah bro, thats unbalanced, knock that shit off."  Alternatively give them some reason not to want to use their powers. It's magical girl shit right? Big aspect of those shows is the fact that they often have to maintain an ordinary social or school/family life while keeping their powers a secret. So make it that, in order to use their powers, they have to be very obviously transformed or that their use is extremely obvious in some other way. Make being seen using powers VERY bad for them, either in character or for the player by having their spirit effect their magic power, so becoming depressed from being socially ostracized as a magic weirdo would ruin their capacity to fight. Alternatively alternatively, make it so that they can only transform/use their powers when allowed to by an outside force. The generic "Cute animal sidekick that gave them the powers" sorta thing you see in all of those shows. Maybe he has to be around for them to do it. Because then you basically have a choke chain to pull if they're getting out of hand.  Alternatively alternatively alternatively, create situations where their powers wouldn't help. A situation where they can't magic their way out.

2.Now, the powers. These are the steps I would take. First, Scale back and narrow focus. I saw someone in that list that could turn drawings into living 3d things. That power right there? TREMENDOUSLY OP in the right hands. You don't even have to think about it very hard. So the first thing ya do is you force limits onto how it can be used. For instance, maybe force it so that the character as what amounts to a magic pen and drawing pad. The drawings only come to life when those specific items are used. And make drawing take a reasonable amount of time. Should take them at least a couple minutes to draw something, It shouldn't just be "I draw a tiger and use it to attack!" that shit should take a while. Force them to plan ahead and then do things they don't plan for. Give them Hard, Specific limits to how their powers work. The more broad and potentially op the power, the more limiting factors you need to attach to it.

Second, set up a preplanned power scale by which you can judge their magic actions and take away mana based on it. In Apotheosis I have a "force" chart which sets out the different level of power. Of course my system actually runs in reverse. You simply pay mana into an action and the mana is then rolled to see how much it effects the action. Ie, mana usage determines action force, rather then action force determining mana  use. But the principle is the same. You set up a table with levels of energy which should be expended depending on the "difficulty" of the action and then use that table to determine mana usage. If I were you I'd set it up via the degree to which it effects the world/the amount of force it produces/ matter it creates. Ie, a power that creates one, normal metal sword is fairly low energy use. But creating 20 adamantium swords should be herculean levels of effort.


Do these suggestions make sense to you?

[Toaster]

So how many of those suggestions are you using in ER?  (Many:  Toys taken away in M13, limited display of power in M14, Lack of information to plan ahead in pretty much every mission, I suspect "powers won't help here in M15, etc.)


Back on subject, making reckless use of super powers affect other players is a good balance lesson to take from ER.  Making things take time is another good one- see my character's ability in Special People.  Sure, I could summon a huge cannon that could shoot the head off a giant robot.  But it took three turns to summon and was still immobile and fragile, and ammo was a separate summon prone to failure.  Which is another balancer- if something is really strong, make it less reliable.  "Okay you can shoot a gout of flame from your hand reliably, but you can also summon a dragon to belch a massive fireball... but he doesn't listen every time."  Or make things once per encounter/day/ever powers.

[Tavik Toth]

I have a feeling the planet didn't originally speak english.

[Toaster]

Spoiler alert, they're all aliens in disguise, just like the Doc is

[Parisbre56]

Spoiler alert, they're all aliens in disguise, just like the Doc is

Wouldn't that make the team the aliens then?

EDIT: Oh, and on the balancing thing, I have no idea about how that system in RotMG works. But if this is a system that uses rolls to determine stuff, then you simply have to balance two factors: versatility (how many figurative doors are opened by their ability) and what kind of bonuses to rolls those abilities provide. The bonuses are graded based on how likely they are to be useful. So if this is one of those systems where dexterity is rolled for initiative, accuracy and dodging for example, then you should obviously penalise dexterity bonuses more than other kinds of bonuses.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.
Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

It's the damage rule PW uses for damage.
[/quote]
Whatever the reason is.

If Simus doesn't respond, wander around in search of clothes and answers.
Clothes first, though, it's chilly.

I don't think you ever edited your original post or posted a new message.

The one that piecewise responded to?
And I would have thought that Pyro could infer that Simus got roughly the message piecewise said Grate would have sent.

-snip-

Do these suggestions make sense to you?

Yup. They will be shared.

Back on subject, making reckless use of super powers affect other players is a good balance lesson to take from ER.

I like this idea, but I don't think many others would...

Spoiler alert, they're all aliens in disguise, just like the Doc is

Wouldn't that make the team the aliens then?

Yes. But the extraterrestrials would also be aliens, since they're also non-native.

EDIT: Oh, and on the balancing thing, I have no idea about how that system in RotMG works. But if this is a system that uses rolls to determine stuff, then you simply have to balance two factors: versatility (how many figurative doors are opened by their ability) and what kind of bonuses to rolls those abilities provide. The bonuses are graded based on how likely they are to be useful. So if this is one of those systems where dexterity is rolled for initiative, accuracy and dodging for example, then you should obviously penalise dexterity bonuses more than other kinds of bonuses.

Well, yes. The problem is figuring out where the penalties lie. The system is complex enough to allow relatively rules-sanctioned abuse but not complex enough to provide a good route of payment for powerful abilities.

[kj1225]

It's hard to tell from simply glancing at the rules, but I would guess a lot of the imbalances and such come from the fact that powers are rather arbitrary in how much energy they use and can be completely OP at times, forcing the GM to create horrifically powerful monsters which no one can beat as a counter?

Pretty much, yeah. Also, noncombat challenges aren't challenging due to other powers. (Such as the characters with vaguely-defined creation powers.)

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.

Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

I saw someone in that list that could turn drawings into living 3d things. That power right there? TREMENDOUSLY OP in the right hands.

Focusing on this because it needs a bit more context, the only time she did manage to do it she passed out. And that was for a fairy. Not nearly as useful as you think it is. And the drawings take up massive amounts of energy for her to make since she is basically making something out of nothing. Although she can animate them in the pictures for less but... it's still a picture.

[Parisbre56]

It's hard to tell from simply glancing at the rules, but I would guess a lot of the imbalances and such come from the fact that powers are rather arbitrary in how much energy they use and can be completely OP at times, forcing the GM to create horrifically powerful monsters which no one can beat as a counter?

Pretty much, yeah. Also, noncombat challenges aren't challenging due to other powers. (Such as the characters with vaguely-defined creation powers.)

Chunky salsa is a cool way to do damage in my opinion.

Not sure why though.

...
Well, whyever it is, I agree.

I saw someone in that list that could turn drawings into living 3d things. That power right there? TREMENDOUSLY OP in the right hands.

Focusing on this because it needs a bit more context, the only time she did manage to do it she passed out. And that was for a fairy. Not nearly as useful as you think it is. And the drawings take up massive amounts of energy for her to make since she is basically making something out of nothing. Although she can animate them in the pictures for less but... it's still a picture.

Yeah, but if she can draw them on anything, she simply has to draw one on a wall and she can spy on the pentagon for example or have it go in and steal someone's identity data or nuclear launch codes. Or you can use it as a distraction. There are many possibilities. Only balancing factor it has is it's not directly useful in combat or generally without preparation. Although you could still use it in combat by calling out the enemy's position for artillery to hit it. Or maybe having it crawl on their goggles and blind them.

[Radio Controlled]

Or maybe she can draw whatever, but has no control over it, or controlling becomes harder as it gets larger/more dangerous.
So summoning a dragon would be fine, but if there's no way of controlling it, she might just as well do more harm than good. It'd be a powerful but dangerous ability.

Or maybe things only work if she knows how they ought to work. So if she draws a plasma cannon, but has no idea how such a thing would work, all she gets is a plastic replica.


By the way, say we work out a good system here, would you guys be resetting the whole thing? Or would you want to keep certain things as they are (characters, settings, ...).

[PyroDesu]

If Simus doesn't respond, wander around in search of clothes and answers.
Clothes first, though, it's chilly.

I don't think you ever edited your original post or posted a new message.

The one that piecewise responded to?
And I would have thought that Pyro could infer that Simus got roughly the message piecewise said Grate would have sent.

I prefer to not infer IC from OOC.

[kj1225]

I believe we are resetting the combat rules removing nonactive characters and starting a somewhat different world with the options for those being, everything was a simulation, everything was a simulation run by a demon, voidy things invade, and suddenly totalitarian government.

[Phoenix Flame]

Okay not arguing anymore

*Continues to argue*

I know, right? I might debate up a storm, but at least I actually leave when I say I do.

Theres a difference between arguing and clarifying a final point.

If you think arm fails at public relations now, be glad i never went after the pill machine.

At least on of the newbs would already be a 6 foot tall bulletproof termite/mantis hybrid with monorazor scythe arms and the capability to disguise themselves as a guy wearing a raincoat by folding their wings over themselves and covering their face with a two part bone mask.

I doubt it. The pill machine is too unpredictable at the moment, and only testing, trial, and error is likely to change that.
Still, once I do, I intend to make pill upgrades available to everyone.

Then youd be wrong. pill machine is easily predictable. Testing, trial, and error is likely to prove me right.

Pill machine upgrades are already available to everyone on haphaestus, all you gotta do is prevent Simus from shutting you down because you forgot to ask for permission.

Maybe I've been reading too many WW2 sabotage manuals but... you know we *could* create a load of manipulator battery pills, package them up in bags labelled "sweets" or "candy" in appropriate languages then airdrop them on problem worlds and watch the fireworks from orbit the next solar system, next galaxy over several universes away