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[Sean Mirrsen]

The thing is, radiators get more efficient at dispersing heat as the working fluid temperature increases, and neither they nor the pumps have an increased power requirement as it does so. Not so for cooling by automanipulator - power requirement for the automanip increases as heat load increases.

Suppose a ship's normal operation will heat up the outside of its hull by 20 degrees per second. Suppose that running a manipulator to decrease the ship hull's temperature by 20 degrees per second to keep its temperature constant will increase heat buildup to 21 degrees per second.

If some other system on the ship is shut down to offset the heat generated back to 20 degrees per second, the cooling system will run constantly with no net increase due to feedback. Or put it another way, if the ship's power generation runs at sufficient overhead that activating the entropic cooler results in no change in the power system's temperature, there is no feedback loop.

Put simply, when you can make energy disappear, it's trivial to compensate for any given rate that you need it to disappear at.

Edit: In more scientific numbers, let's say that you have a figure for a given rate of heat dissipation, say 1MW of heat dissipation. That 1 MW of heat dissipation requires you to increase your energy production by 1KW, which will increase the temperature, yada yada. But if you were already generating the extra 1KW of energy, or in fact an extra 10KW of energy just to be sure, then you can maintain a constant level of 1MW of heat dissipation, and adjust your heat generation to match it by adjusting your surplus power production. Easy.

[Harry Baldman]

We're not talking about automanipulators the size of pocket calculators, here - we're talking about an automanipulator large enough to have the capacity to cool a decently large sphere to 2-3K, and in doing so shield that heat of life support, the automanips you would need to use for movement (the tyranny of the rocket equation is still in effect here, if you don't use them - you start to go a bit beyond 'fighter' scale if you plan to have any decent velocity, return capability, and manoeuvring capability), and the power source for all of the automanips.

Why do you think these automanipulators are any larger? I've never heard them described, but I don't see any reason they would need to necessarily be larger to do something like that. After all, you can basically nuke a town without even causing an overload with an amp, like Xan did once.

Also, isn't detecting a heat signature basically just detecting infrared light? Can't you just block that somehow? We've got all sorts of wacky metamaterials. Maybe get some interference going, you know? That kind of thing. Maybe you don't even need automanipulators, or maybe you need to use them in a different way?

[Sean Mirrsen]

We're not talking about automanipulators the size of pocket calculators, here - we're talking about an automanipulator large enough to have the capacity to cool a decently large sphere to 2-3K, and in doing so shield that heat of life support, the automanips you would need to use for movement (the tyranny of the rocket equation is still in effect here, if you don't use them - you start to go a bit beyond 'fighter' scale if you plan to have any decent velocity, return capability, and manoeuvring capability), and the power source for all of the automanips.

Why do you think these automanipulators are any larger? I've never heard them described, but I don't see any reason they would need to necessarily be larger to do something like that. After all, you can basically nuke a town without even causing an overload with an amp, like Xan did once.

Also, isn't detecting a heat signature basically just detecting infrared light? Can't you just block that somehow? We've got all sorts of wacky metamaterials. Maybe get some interference going, you know? That kind of thing. Maybe you don't even need automanipulators, or maybe you need to use them in a different way?

Heat isn't exactly the same as infrared light, but the point is that any emissions will give you away. Short of covering the ship in energy-absorbing rock from the planetoid, I don't think you can mask thermal emissions completely without automanipulators. And perhaps not even then. And you still have to handle maneuvering somehow, because you need engines facing in more directions than just backwards.

[Harry Baldman]

Heat isn't exactly the same as infrared light, but the point is that any emissions will give you away. Short of covering the ship in energy-absorbing rock from the planetoid, I don't think you can mask thermal emissions completely without automanipulators. And you still have to handle maneuvering somehow, because you need engines facing in more directions than just backwards.

Well, minimize emissions, then. There's vector manipulators, mass manipulation amps, that sort of thing to minimize need for engines. Crew of 2-4 experienced robotic amp people inside that kind of ship, with no internal atmosphere. Maybe fired as a shell from a position via automanipulator, with cameras spaced around the outer layer. Should have reasonable undetectability, right? There's no such thing as absolute undetectability, after all, so it's really a question of how precise their instruments are.

And how else can you detect heat except as emitted light?

[Parisbre56]

@Harry Baldman: Automanipulators used in battleships were described as being "the size of a car small tank" by piecewise. See the previous turn.

@Sean Mirrsen: The Black Sand of the Abyss (good name for a Metal Band by the way), the one we reverse engineered to make the anti-laser coating is capable of absorbing all forms of energy and using it to replicate. You just got to make sure you won't end up with grey goo and you can use that.

[Sean Mirrsen]

And how else can you detect heat except as emitted light?

More accurately, thermal emission (or black body radiation, or whatever) is electromagnetic radiation that mostly falls into the infrared spectrum at reasonable temperatures. So it's not exactly infrared.

[Harry Baldman]

@Harry Baldman: Automanipulators used in battleships were described as "the size of a car" by piecewise.

Ah, I see. This whole thing gives me an idea. Have to wait until everyone either succeeds or perishes horribly, though.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Really? No one is gonna tell steve to shock him? Steve is too busy right now to read Leo's biorhythms and sense "THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GLUE YOU BACK TOGETHER IN HELL!" running through his head.

welp, Now it's gonna be a speed roll next turn.


Leo gets up as you do, whips the object around in front of him and reaches for the control panel on the front.

Well, I did say that Anton is running this rather in-character. It's been a year since the takeover, the missing UE never showed himself, and was for all intents and purposes assumed either dead, gone, or never there. Anton is a tech, not a soldier, and there was at least one other guy who liked carrying a nuke around before, so shoot first and ask questions later isn't entirely justified. That and Anton never came into contact with UE mind control. I have enough out-of-character knowledge to shoot Leo, but Anton is rather confused at the moment, unfortunately. Now that the intent is clear, I guess there's nothing to do but see how it plays out. Either Hasala will have to tackle the guy (I'm not sure if he has weapons), or Anton will have to zap him, or more likely fry him - no time for niceties, preferably before he touches the bomb's controls.

More likely Hasala will try to tackle Leo, only to be accidentally shot by Anton, and vaporized a second later along with Anton and a slightly amused UE!Leo.

[Harry Baldman]

I have to say, I'm kind of rooting for the Shadow Walker if there is one and it's not just Leo gone totally nuts, which it very well may be. It seems like kind of a cool person, you know?

[Caellath]

Leo may just have gone nuts in a very IC fashion. Remember how both player and character didn't like the whole "slave army of Steve" idea?

[Harry Baldman]

Leo may just have gone nuts in a very IC fashion. Remember how both player and character didn't like the whole "slave army of Steve" idea?

Exactly what I was thinking. Well, more power to Leo. His banjo shall echo forever in the halls of Hephaestus on dark nights.

[Xantalos]

Welp, time for Xan to bug out.

Heh.

[swordsmith04]

Really? No one is gonna tell steve to shock him? Steve is too busy right now to read Leo's biorhythms and sense "THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GLUE YOU BACK TOGETHER IN HELL!" running through his head.

welp, Now it's gonna be a speed roll next turn.


Leo gets up as you do, whips the object around in front of him and reaches for the control panel on the front.

Well, I did say that Anton is running this rather in-character. It's been a year since the takeover, the missing UE never showed himself, and was for all intents and purposes assumed either dead, gone, or never there. Anton is a tech, not a soldier, and there was at least one other guy who liked carrying a nuke around before, so shoot first and ask questions later isn't entirely justified. That and Anton never came into contact with UE mind control. I have enough out-of-character knowledge to shoot Leo, but Anton is rather confused at the moment, unfortunately. Now that the intent is clear, I guess there's nothing to do but see how it plays out. Either Hasala will have to tackle the guy (I'm not sure if he has weapons), or Anton will have to zap him, or more likely fry him - no time for niceties, preferably before he touches the bomb's controls.

More likely Hasala will try to tackle Leo, only to be accidentally shot by Anton, and vaporized a second later along with Anton and a slightly amused UE!Leo.

Fire away. If he's wrestling for the nuke with Leo, an electrical charge will get them both.
EDIT: Oh, and I keep my characters' wiki pages updated for inventory. If you're not sure what Hasala's carrying around at any given moment, just check there.

[Devastator]

Here's Leo's stat sheet, as he isn't on the wiki.

Spoiler: Leo Girard (click to show/hide)

Age: 30
Appearance: Ordinary looking brown hair and eyes.  Shortish. 

Unremarkable features.
Personal Information: Leo lives most of his life under-the-radar,

almost to the point of paranoia, making money through casual labor,

gray market trading and occasional grift.
Reason assigned to HMRC: Fingered by the one-armed man.

Stats
Strength: 5
Dexterity: 4
Endurance: 5
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Willpower: 3

Skills
Speech: 1
Intuition: 1
Handiwork: 1 (-1)
Conventional Weapons: 3
Unconventional Weapons: 1
Exotic Weapons: 0
Auxiliary Systems: 1 (+1)
Medical Tech: 0

Grunt.

Tokens: 2

Inventory, regular and Blue smokes.
Scouteye
Gauss Rifle
Mk 1 Suit
Banjo-playing program.
Undefined array of grenades.
Two banjos

You should have a fair chance wrestling, swordsmith, he isn't anything to talk about.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Here's Leo's stat sheet, as he isn't on the wiki.

Spoiler: Leo Girard (click to show/hide)

Age: 30
Appearance: Ordinary looking brown hair and eyes.  Shortish. 

Unremarkable features.
Personal Information: Leo lives most of his life under-the-radar,

almost to the point of paranoia, making money through casual labor,

gray market trading and occasional grift.
Reason assigned to HMRC: Fingered by the one-armed man.

Stats
Strength: 5
Dexterity: 4
Endurance: 5
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Willpower: 3

Skills
Speech: 1
Intuition: 1
Handiwork: 1 (-1)
Conventional Weapons: 3
Unconventional Weapons: 1
Exotic Weapons: 0
Auxiliary Systems: 1 (+1)
Medical Tech: 0

Grunt.

Tokens: 2

Inventory, regular and Blue smokes.
Scouteye
Gauss Rifle
Mk 1 Suit
Banjo-playing program.
Undefined array of grenades.
Two banjos

You should have a fair chance wrestling, swordsmith, he isn't anything to talk about.

Well, Anton has him beat by dexterity at least... marginally, but a +1/3 is better than nothing. Not sure if that factors into the speed check.

From an RP perspective, Anton is currently better off grabbing his Gungnir by the foregrip and Tesla-sabering Leo, however by the same logic as the previous sentence, a +1/3 is better than nothing. Let's see if that little Con bonus ends up having any effect...