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Author Topic: How "Old" could you have made DF??  (Read 3588 times)

Miuramir

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 01:18:21 pm »

The OLD old school version.. How far back could you have made it work?

As a rough guide, to get something that's recognizably DF, I think you'd need:
* a true 32 bit microprocessor
* built-in or add-on math processor
* a MMU with proper 32-bit virtual memory support
* several tens of MB of memory (RAM)
* a hard disk drive with several tens of MB of space free after the OS
* a directly connected display capable of around 640 x 480 with 256 colors
* ordinary US wall plug power
* no external cooling requirements
* readily available compilers

Off the top of my head, an Apple Macintosh IIx was one of the first "out of the box" personal computer to meet the above criteria; available in 1988 loaded out for around $10k; as a bonus, it was used in a variety of university settings back then, and so possibly familiar to an Alt-Toady from his previous academic life, or even acquired surplus a few years later. 

A tricked-out Amiga 2000 might have done the job around the same time, but IIRC wasn't available stock with the right accessories until the Amiga 3000, which came out a few years later in 1990. 

To look at things from a different angle, you really want a Motorola MC68030; you might be able to try with a MC68020, but I'm not sure you can go much earlier.  At the time, the Intel-side offerings were much weaker on the MMU side; you could probably manage something with an Intel 80386 + 80387 + supporting chips; but while back in the day a "Compaq 386" was cheaper and better for office and some engineering uses, the university programming departments I was familiar with used the Apple & Amiga 68k-based lines for fairly clear reasons. 

So, very late '80s, almost certainly; although embark sizes would be rather smaller than we have today, and it would probably not be thought of as a "real time" game; think more like a Roguelike, at low-single-digit FPS. 

Note that of the philosophical roots of DF, Angband itself only dates back to around 1990; the much simpler UMoria was widely distributed around 1985.  So, again, it's unlikely much before the very late '80s, and early '90s is more likely for a plausible time for someone to have the idea of a persistent, evolving surface world for a Roguelike that could be run on a desktop of the time. 

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Crossroads Inc.

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2014, 08:17:31 pm »

That is a seriously kick ass break down you have!!!

I could see a "Primitive" version of DF Being released in the early 90's something WAY Smaller then the original release. Something to get people interested and talking about it.  And by the late 90's build up to the point where you do the first release and you could begin upgrading from there.
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Putnam

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2014, 09:28:38 pm »

Dragslay?

fractalman

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 09:43:06 am »

Adventure mode only or fort mode as well?
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Footkerchief

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 11:15:10 am »

Dragslay?

Good point.  Dragslay thread, if anyone's interested.  I'm sure it had more restrictions than a true open-world roguelike though.
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Wimopy

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 03:33:52 pm »

As a link back to the OP; what would DF need to have to still be considered DF?

2D or 3D? World generation or pre-defined worlds? And there could be other questions, but I guess the question is: How much can we take away/leave to still have Dwarf Fortress and not just a similar game?
I'm guessing personal relationships+pets+3D could be thrown out, and we could go with the weapon does X amount Y type of damage with multipliers from quality and material.. World gen... well, let's say we make a program to user-create worlds or have people with real powerful computers gen new ones...

Now then, Half Life was released in 1998. Half Life 2 was released in 2004. The Sims was released in 2000. Homeworld was released in 1999.
Why these? Well, Half Life is there for a reference in added physics (source engine). Sims is there for its needs bars + multiple simulated people. Homeworld is because it had large scale battles in three dimensions.

To be honest, it really depends on what features we want to keep to call it DF. Pretty sure we can't have hundreds of body parts lying around producing miasma at alarming rates, even though it seems more or less normal unless cleared away...
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Manveru Taurënér

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 03:47:10 pm »

Eh, I don't really see how the question could be interpreted as referring to anything but the actual released versions of DF, not a hypothetical stripped down pre-release one.
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Putnam

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 04:12:52 pm »

Dwarf Fortress began development in 2002, mind.

Wimopy

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Re: How "Old" could you have made DF??
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 11:22:33 am »

True. I'd say, using the tech available at the time and with instantly finished development, somewhere in the last years of the 90's, for the first released version, whatever it contained.
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