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[PanH]

Second the reason there is no defence is the fact that people in that region are pro russian and wont to separate from the ukrain for whatever reason. Russia will not carve a chunk from a country. They are there to "protect" them. The country will have a referendum if it wants to get separated or not. So its not as bad as you make it again.

Russia is not going for territory that doesn't want to be separated, but the ones that want. That is a key difference and why it doesnt look that bad, and why there is no huge resistance for now.

Then, why did they invaded Crimea before it could hold the referendum ? There was nothing that threatened ethnic russians from Crimea at that point.
If you want to respect people's right to govern themselves, you might want for them to express their opinion before pre-emptively annexing them.

[GlyphGryph]

2) First, world war did not start because of it. Second the reason there is no defence is the fact that people in that region are pro russian and wont to separate from the ukrain for whatever reason. Russia will not carve a chunk from a country. They are there to "protect" them. The country will have a referendum if it wants to get separated or not. So its not as bad as you make it again.

I'm not sure how much legitimacy a vote while under foreign occupation will manage, honestly.

Also, Yanukovich seems to think the Russians are acting on his orders and will soon return the entirety of the Ukraine to his control. But I'm hoping he, unlike Putin, is just crazy.

[boki]

2) First, world war did not start because of it. Second the reason there is no defence is the fact that people in that region are pro russian and wont to separate from the ukrain for whatever reason. Russia will not carve a chunk from a country. They are there to "protect" them. The country will have a referendum if it wants to get separated or not. So its not as bad as you make it again.

I'm not sure how much legitimacy a vote while under foreign occupation will manage, honestly.

If people want it, then it's legit. Is russian military there or not doesn't say much, especially as you need to remember that they called russian to come there in first place.

But when one does it, it will be a chain reaction where other will follow.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Er, when did Crimea call for Russian aid?

Like how those libyan rebels wanted US/NATO help? They were pleading for it. Remember that? When the cities were being boxed-in and shelled?

Unlike in Crimea?

[XXSockXX]

Er, when did Crimea call for Russian aid?

The Crimean government did call for Russian aid. They just didn't really have a reason to do it, because there wasn't any threat. Even if there had been a threat, Russian diplomacy alone could have protected them.

[Sergarr]

Er, when did Crimea call for Russian aid?

The Crimean government did call for Russian aid. They just didn't really have a reason to do it, because there wasn't any threat. Even if there had been a threat, Russian diplomacy alone could have protected them.

Not against the Right Sector, I fear.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Hm, when was that? Thought they showed up and removed the gov from their own buildings.

[boki]

Er, when did Crimea call for Russian aid?

Like how those libyan rebels wanted US/NATO help? They were pleading for it. Remember that? When the cities were being boxed-in and shelled?

Unlike in Crimea?

They called help for russia. Thats why this happend in the first place, as they are scared of changes in the west and from so called nacis or dont know the names

[Mictlantecuhtli]

No, they didn't.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

snip

They called help for russia. Thats why this happend in the first place, as they are scared of changes in the west and from so called nacis or dont know the names

I'd like a source for when help was requested and who requested it.

[XXSockXX]

Not against the Right Sector, I fear.

The Right Sector didn't look so powerful to me after the new government was in place, certainly not in Crimea. With this kind of pressure Russia is making the Right Sector stronger than it would have been under a new government after a time of consolidation and return to a somewhat normal situation.

I'd like a source for when help was requested and who requested it.

This has come up plenty in the thread several pages ago, here's one.

[boki]

No, they didn't.

Not correct
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/ukraine-crimea-leader-asks-putin-help-20143184757803489.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/crimeas-leader-claims-control-asks-russias-vladimir-putin-for-help/
http://news.yahoo.com/crimean-leader-claims-control-asks-putin-help-070848315.html

[Lt_Alfred]

Imagine what would happen if a war does break out, what would you do if you were living in Ukraine? would you run away or join the military?

[palsch]

Note the date on all those articles is the 1st of March. That is also the date on the letter the Russian UN ambassador was waving around from Yanukovych asking Russia for troops. But looking at a basic timeline... (crude source, but only a rough outline)

Feb. 26: Leaders of Ukraine's protest movement propose legislator Arseniy Yatsenyuk as prime minister. In Moscow, Putin orders major military exercises just across the border.

Feb. 27: Masked gunmen seize regional parliament and government buildings in Crimea. Ukraine's government pledges to prevent a national breakup with strong backing from the West. Yanukovych is granted refuge in Russia.

Feb. 28: Ukraine says Russian troops have taken up positions around strategic locations on the Crimean peninsula. Ukraine's parliament adopts a resolution demanding that Russia halt steps it says are aimed against Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. Turchynov says he has put armed forces on full readiness because of the threat of "potential aggression."

March 1: Russian troops take over Crimea without firing a shot. The Kyiv government and its Western supporters are powerless to react. U.S. President Barack Obama calls Putin to demand the troops' withdrawal.

So you basically have two days of unidentified gunmen in control of Crimean government building before that invitation goes out. Given the gunmen were aligned with if not actually Russian that does throw the legitimacy of those appeals into question.

[GrizzlyAdamz]

Ninja'd, but the 'request for help' came /after/ russia sent troops in and the crimean parliament building was sacked, (though  'sacked' isn't a neutral word to use).


Here's a bit from wikipedia about the self-proclaimed Crimean leader:

Aksyonov claims that he was voted into office during the 2014 Crimean crisis while the Council of Ministers of Crimea was under siege by Russian paramilitary agents.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aksyonov