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[evilman222]

In my latest fort, I got to adamantite pretty early, and managed to equip a squad of four dwarves with full adamantite weapons and armor, as well as a golem. Most attacks just glance off, but for whatever reason copper spears cut through the metal like butter. Anyone else noticed this? I haven't really seen any other metal spears, so no information if its related to the metal.

[Stiefel]

I just did an experiment to test adamantine vs copper. I put up dwarfs of the exact same skill levels (lvl 4 or Competent for all skills), individually pitting full adamantine armor dwarfs with copper weapons against dwarfs with adamantine weapons and copper armor; I also pitted dwarfs with adamantine weapons and adamantine armor against copper weapons and copper armor. Only dwarfs with the same weapon type were pitted against each other, so the effectiveness of the weapon type was a controlled variable. I only used male dwarfs, no other sex or race, so the effectiveness of the wielder is also a controlled variable. I forgot to include multiple instances of each pair, so I do recommend someone repeat this experiment on a larger scale to confirm.
Results:
A armor A spear vs C armor C spear proved inconclusive since both lost their weapons. Neither one died, but CC lost all his teeth.
A armor A sword vs C armor C spear resulted in AA victory without injury.
A armor A axe vs C armor C axe resulted in CC victory without injury.
A armor C spear vs C armor A spear resulted in AC victory without injury.
A armor C sword vs C armor A sword resulted in CA victory without injury.
A armor C axe vs C armor A axe resulted in CA victory with missing teeth and slight injury to the left arm.

I think we can conclude that adamantine is a poor metal for spears, and that it is best for swords. Try a more heavy metal.

[Meph]

Science like this is usually done with at least 100 pairs against 100 pairs, not using just one. Large control groups are necessary, because combat in DF is very random at best. Its as if you do a medical experiment in RL on one person, then distribute the product based on that one persons reaction.

Adamantine is bad for hammers, but should be excellent for spears. Spears also pierce armor easily, because they have a sharp but small tip. Like arrows. This makes it easier for a inferior material spear to go through armor, but they are not large enough to cut of limbs like axes and swords do.

[Stiefel]

Science like this is usually done with at least 100 pairs against 100 pairs, not using just one. Large control groups are necessary, because combat in DF is very random at best. Its as if you do a medical experiment in RL on one person, then distribute the product based on that one persons reaction.

Adamantine is bad for hammers, but should be excellent for spears. Spears also pierce armor easily, because they have a sharp but small tip. Like arrows. This makes it easier for a inferior material spear to go through armor, but they are not large enough to cut of limbs like axes and swords do.

It was just something real quick for this thread. I actually have no experience with adamantine or copper in Masterwork. I said already that someone else should do this with larger groups.

[Meph]

I forgot to include multiple instances of each pair, so I do recommend someone repeat this experiment on a larger scale to confirm.

Yep, I was just adding info to this part.

It was just that you said "I think we can conclude that adamantine is a poor metal for spears", which is not quite true.

[Stiefel]

I forgot to include multiple instances of each pair, so I do recommend someone repeat this experiment on a larger scale to confirm.

Yep, I was just adding info to this part.

It was just that you said "I think we can conclude that adamantine is a poor metal for spears", which is not quite true.

I'm starting to think I should've kept my mouth shut, or at least looked at the raws instead of relying on isolated skirmishes, but oh well. I don't even bother with copper as a metal for military purposes because gobbies usually have better metals, which is why I love this mod so much (I don't like having to make absolute sure I have iron ore on the map).

[evilman222]

My issue isn't really with copper spears being better than adamantite spears, but that my adamantite armor deflects every steel sword or axe attack, yet is cut to pieces by a copper spear. Just strikes me as a bit off.

[Sutremaine]

I have a hard time in vanilla (ish) with silver or copper pikes. They can't get through steel to cut the flesh beneath, but they cause extreme and unfixable nerve damage. Spears are half the size, but have the same small, focused contact area.

What are you getting in the combat log from the copper spears?

[evilman222]

It's mostly various attacks from other weapons being deflected. I'm noticing that most of the injuries aren't to organs, but there is, as you said, a lot of nerve damage, and often break bones in the arms and hands.