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Author Topic: Tribulations in Magic: The cavalry is... still preparing.  (Read 334367 times)

Elephant Parade

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #825 on: April 14, 2014, 10:35:34 pm »

The Magic room will shortly be replaced by the Monster Room.  Here, a terminal will be placed that teleports you into a separate arena filled with NPCs of various descriptions.  By performing various tasks in the new arena, you will be awarded Capture Balls.  These will allow you to catch these monsters and keep them as pets!  The terminal will allow you to "duel" the pets of other players via a system that's still under development, but it's basically a cross between Battleship and Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock.
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
PERPLEXIMON!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #826 on: April 15, 2014, 07:26:47 am »

The Magic room will shortly be replaced by the Monster Room.  Here, a terminal will be placed that teleports you into a separate arena filled with NPCs of various descriptions.  By performing various tasks in the new arena, you will be awarded Capture Balls.  These will allow you to catch these monsters and keep them as pets!  The terminal will allow you to "duel" the pets of other players via a system that's still under development, but it's basically a cross between Battleship and Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock.
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
PERPLEXIMON!
Indeed.
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Bigf00t

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #827 on: April 15, 2014, 09:02:11 am »

The Magic room will shortly be replaced by the Monster Room.  Here, a terminal will be placed that teleports you into a separate arena filled with NPCs of various descriptions.  By performing various tasks in the new arena, you will be awarded Capture Balls.  These will allow you to catch these monsters and keep them as pets!  The terminal will allow you to "duel" the pets of other players via a system that's still under development, but it's basically a cross between Battleship and Rock-Paper-Scissors-Lizard-Spock.
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL
PERPLEXIMON!
Indeed.
...
I want this, if only to use the "Capture Balls" on the Bad-Luck-Dugtrio.

I'd ask Toaster if you could be placed in limbo until you return. You could drop out, and the top waitlister could switch in.
The GM coughs politely.
Sorry wait-listers, I'm here to stay. Until I die. Of course.

((I'd drop out if I was expecting to be away for a significant amount of time, or have me be NPC'd with a MASSIVE list of pre-planned turns. Hmm, Bigf01t-AI? I am taking an A.I. course at uni right now... Anyway, my delays have just been from unexpected events, and general low internet access. Sorry for that.))

Any chance I could add to my turn "investigate the vibrating chitin"? Standard fare, poke it, throw it at nearest wall, that kind of stuff.
I'm afraid that it will have to happen in next turn.
Oh, that's what I meant, :P just to tack that on the end of my next turn. Oops.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 09:18:08 am by Bigf00t »
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #828 on: April 15, 2014, 09:22:30 am »

Could you actually code a Perplexicon-playing AI? (In theory.)
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Toaster

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #829 on: April 15, 2014, 09:26:11 am »

new Spell mySpell;
ForEach(PoolAvailable) {
  mySpell.AddToSpell(ChooseRandomWord());
}

Cast(myspell);

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Bigf00t

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #830 on: April 15, 2014, 10:31:50 am »

Pre-post edit: Wall of text. Fair warning.

Could you actually code a Perplexicon-playing AI? (In theory.)

That depends, to make an NPC-like AI for a melee orientated character would be easier. Have it roam, possibly offer "an alliance" (either no-violence or aid-on-trouble) to the first mage to discover a ("safe") material word and a weapon word, then have it target players based on a perceived "weakness" (injuries/stats/has weapon?) and then either just use the basic "attack random body part" sort of system most of us do anyway or maybe have it develop preferences, maybe based on "of all the battles it has perceived, what attacks ended it the quickest in the attackers favor?" (a sort of weighted database sampling at it's core, but avoids the "local maxima" problem of some learning algorithms. Would have it use the most effective method discovered. Have it occasionally use random moves and it might even develop a better strategy!

Magic on the other hand, requires some more hard-coding behavior. Like "teaching" it how to "science". How to discern material/form/effect/targeting words. It would need to have a hard-coded understanding of what kind of words are "offensive", like fire or black holes. Possibly each with a weight to show what's better than what (fire /= all-consuming-void!). An understanding of what targeting words can be used to target an opponent, and what can be used to augment, or defend one's self. That sort of thing.
We have this knowledge (mostly) by virtue of our education and learning as we grew up, but fortunately the AI only needs a relatively small subset of this to operate effectively, albeit simply.

I'd love the challenge actually. I also would LOVE to put in some form of computer controlled NPC/Ai profile system into my toolkit, and have planned to for a while, just have to put in everything else first :P

new Spell mySpell;
ForEach(PoolAvailable) {
  mySpell.AddToSpell(ChooseRandomWord());
}

Cast(myspell);

*shudders*
...
On first impressions that was... I code in Java so that was immediately painful, but honestly not too bad a way of doing it I guess.
I started to write a function below:
Quote from: Java goes here:
public void randomScience() {
    // Lets code in Java! (This is a comment)
    for (int i = 0 ; i < me.getPool() ; i ++) {
        // This is a for loop, increment a variable called "i" from zero until we have looped over all of our pool points we have to spend.
        Spell spellVariable = new Spell();
        // Make a new "Spell object" of type "Spell" (duh), and lets call it spellVariable.
        ...
Until I realised I was just basicly going to do what you were doing.
Then wanted to add code to check if word was already known, and to only science new ones, but not loop forever if no unknown words exist, and to evaluate the spell result to determine what it was (even if incomplete, as in you know it is a form word, but not which one...

...

Yea.
       
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #831 on: April 15, 2014, 10:42:48 am »

Hm.

So, is it an interesting enough challenge that you'd be willing to try? Probably with a human to translate turns into "this happened because of your last action".
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Tomcost

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #832 on: April 15, 2014, 10:54:17 am »

It is indeed interesting, but I don't know if taking the human element away from the game can be truly achieved. Hmm.

The manager for the game, on the other hand, is going to be an improvement for both GMs and players.

On a side note, I hope you found funny Toaster's joke.

Bigf00t

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #833 on: April 15, 2014, 11:21:16 am »

Hm.

So, is it an interesting enough challenge that you'd be willing to try? Probably with a human to translate turns into "this happened because of your last action".

I'm willing, it just would need the rest of the system of the manager (the underlying code with the information on how the system works) to be particularly effective, and could likely never really compete with the creativity or intuition of a human player. Cold ruthless efficiency however? Maybe :P

I'm going to bed in a minute, but @Tomcost, if I made an AI, could I waitlist it? ;D

It is indeed interesting, but I don't know if taking the human element away from the game can be truly achieved. Hmm.

The manager for the game, on the other hand, is going to be an improvement for both GMs and players.

On a side note, I hope you found funny Toaster's joke.
I wouldn't want to take the human element away, but it would be an interesting thread: "Computers play: Perplexicon" or "Adventures in AI: Crimes against humanity (Perplexicon)".

I'm glad that someone might actually be looking forward to this other than me!

Also, I found Toaster's joke to be good, I may have just taken it literally to begin with, derped, and carried on with the literal interpretation anyway. Unless you mean the bit where he pretended to be you, that fa-shizzle was hilarious!
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #834 on: April 15, 2014, 11:23:31 am »

It is indeed interesting, but I don't know if taking the human element away from the game can be truly achieved. Hmm.
You'd definitely need someone interpreting the turns. Aside from that...well, you wouldn't need anything else unless you wanted it to work well.

I'm willing, it just would need the rest of the system of the manager (the underlying code with the information on how the system works) to be particularly effective, and could likely never really compete with the creativity or intuition of a human player. Cold ruthless efficiency however? Maybe :P
As to the first, I'm pretty sure it's functioning more or less on the published Perplexicon system.
As to the second, who cares if it works well?

Quote
I wouldn't want to take the human element away, but it would be an interesting thread: "Computers play: Perplexicon" or "Adventures in AI: Crimes against humanity (Perplexicon)".
Hm. Setting up a few AIs, having them, dammit, Perplexicate, and seeing what happens? Sounds like Fun.

Quote
I'm glad that someone might actually be looking forward to this other than me!
I'm interested too!
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 11:47:24 am by GreatWyrmGold »
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Bigf00t

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #835 on: April 15, 2014, 11:31:23 am »

I'm willing, it just would need the rest of the system of the manager (the underlying code with the information on how the system works) to be particularly effective, and could likely never really compete with the creativity or intuition of a human player. Cold ruthless efficiency however? Maybe :P
As to the first, I'm pretty sure it's functioning more or less on the published Perplexicon system.
As to the second, who cares if it works well?
Oh, I meant MY system. I'm writing the data structures to store information about the Perplexicon system that the computer can understand and use. Like writing objects to represent items, or players and everything with methods based on what they can do. I just need them first.

-sneeeerp-
Quote
I wouldn't want to take the human element away, but it would be an interesting thread: "Computers play: Perplexicon" or "Adventures in AI: Crimes against humanity (Perplexicon)".
Hm. Setting up a few AIs, having the Perplexicate, and seeing what happens? Sounds like Fun.
"Perplexicate"... Nice. Might have to use that!

Quote
I'm glad that someone might actually be looking forward to this other than me!
I'm interested too!
Yay!
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But screw it nobody tames a murderbear without taking risks.

GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #836 on: April 15, 2014, 11:37:01 am »

Oh. Eh, not a programmer, unless someone codes something that's easy to mod.

Yay, I invented a verb that will almost certainly never be used outside this subforum!

Indeed.
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Bigf00t

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #837 on: April 15, 2014, 11:40:59 am »

...and the first other person who would use it thought you meant it as a proper noun for the gathering of Perplexicon AI players. Oops.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #838 on: April 15, 2014, 11:47:02 am »

To be fair, I typo'd.
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Toaster

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Re: Tribulations in Magic: Trinity of bad news
« Reply #839 on: April 15, 2014, 11:52:53 am »

If it makes you feel better, I wasn't aiming for any specific language.  Been not coding too long to be exact to anything without double checking myself.

That said, the point is it's easy to make an AI.  Making a GOOD AI is a whole different story.
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HMR stands for Hazardous Materials Requisition, not Horrible Massive Ruination, though I can understand how one could get confused.
God help us if we have to agree on pizza toppings at some point. There will be no survivors.
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