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[wierd]

Fair enough-- just thought i'd offer. (I actually LIKE making furniture models.)

Sadly, my employer is sucking the life out of me in terms of free time, so I can't really offer to be a betatester. (Betatests involve more than just playing. If bugs are found, they need to experiment and then report steps to reproduce. Not just playing; playing an aweful lot.)

I like the protagonist model though.

Any spoilers on the nature of your world, if it isn't medieval europe, as the name suggests?

[Araph]

Betatests involve more than just playing. If bugs are found, they need to experiment and then report steps to reproduce. Not just playing; playing an aweful lot.

I know how boring beta testing is on a theoretical level, but I'm guessing I'm going to realize how much worse it is than I thought when the game is actually far enough along that it would need extensive testing. For now, though, it's mostly just going to be playing together on the same server while I record bugs. I don't expect anybody here to spend hours searching for glitches.

I like the protagonist model though.

Thanks!

Any spoilers on the nature of your world, if it isn't medieval europe, as the name suggests?

If anybody here has read the 'The Last Apprentice' series of books, that's the best reference I could give for what the setting is like. There are, of course, still differences, but the tone is pretty close.

In the game world, the technological level is medieval. I haven't entirely fleshed out the backstory, but the general idea is that the protagonists are Wardens, a group of demon hunters who use fire-based magic to destroy the monsters' ties to this world. The nation the game is set in is pretty gloomy; while there are spots of light, there are also a whole lot of evil forces out and about, which is why the Wardens exist in the first place.

If you want specifics, I'm afraid I can't indulge you on the matter, since I don't know them either.

[Sengoku]

Edit: Posted in the wrong thread 

[GiglameshDespair]

As something I've just noticed, are the walls in the screenshots made out of stone? Because if they are, i think they need to seem more like bricks or blocks set together than a smooth stone wall.

[coolio678]

Ah, The Last Apprentice. I really liked that series, not sure why I never finished it. I feel like I'm going to have to at some point.

[Araph]

As something I've just noticed, are the walls in the screenshots made out of stone? Because if they are, i think they need to seem more like bricks or blocks set together than a smooth stone wall.

Yeah, I just slapped a stone-ish texture on the exterior walls. It's not all that good.

Ah, The Last Apprentice. I really liked that series, not sure why I never finished it. I feel like I'm going to have to at some point.

I never finished it either, and I honestly can't remember why.

[Doomblade187]

As something I've just noticed, are the walls in the screenshots made out of stone? Because if they are, i think they need to seem more like bricks or blocks set together than a smooth stone wall.

Yeah, I just slapped a stone-ish texture on the exterior walls. It's not all that good.

Ah, The Last Apprentice. I really liked that series, not sure why I never finished it. I feel like I'm going to have to at some point.

I never finished it either, and I honestly can't remember why.

That makes three of us.

Though maybe it was that the last book wasn't out when I was reading it?

[wierd]

I haven't read it at all-- Perhaps I should scrounge up a copy.


As for not quite knowing specifics yet, that's a little backwards from my usual MO. (Likes to really think about the setting, the actors, the local organisations and their politics, and how all of those things interract to produce a cogent story landscape.)

Some glaring questions, are why the antagonists are building altars to a demonic entity of unfathomable power in the first place, why it is that this entity requires human subbordinates to produce altars to it, how those altars serve the creature, and why the creature wants to be here. (It might not, after all.)

Simply "being evil" is a copout.  The usual MO for demons and summoning, is that the demon *hates* being summoned, and wants nothing more than to brutally exterminate all summoners to stop the practice. (Can of RAID meets roaches sort of exterminate.) Also tend to be vain, and like having their egos stroked. That sort of thing. However, the actual desire to enter the world they are summoned into usually does not exist at first. Typically, they resist being summoned, already holding a place of dominion already, and being summoned away means losing what they already have. (This is why they hate summoners so much. Petty demands from pitiful insects, imposing their insignificant wills where they don't belong-- death is too good for them.) However, once they are able to willfully move about between the world they are summoned into, and the place of their origin at will, then they LIKE being here, and see it as just more to control and dominate. Some of the more clever ones will instruct the summoners in how to summon their rivals, causing those rivals to be summoned away from their dominions, and allowing an invasion behind the scenes to happen.

There is much intrigue and complexity that can occur in such a storyline. How those things interweave has powerful effects on the story. That's why I like to think about those things before delving too deeply into asset creation.

[Araph]

The antagonists who build the altars are individuals who either want power, get duped into giving a demon a tie to the material world, or are mentally weak enough to fall under a demon's power outright (possession).

Also, why the hell would 'USUALLY demons hate being summoned' affect my game?

I've put thought into backstories for different maps. The actual details are specific to the map. Given how the demo map is simply to test out technical problems and to make sure I can create the necessary assets for an actual level, I didn't deem it worth the effort of planning out the story of a game when I didnt even have a game to tell the story with.

I've started many projects with great ideas for stories. I wanted to make sure the actual system to deliver the story was in place before trying to tell it.

[wierd]

I didnt mean anything personally--- Honest.

I understand wanting to be sure that you had a medium that works as a vehicle for story telling, before investing lots of energy. I was just pointing out that it is opposite from what I usually do.

Many games I have played with a "Big baddie wants to destroy the world, oh my!" type theme does not really elaborate on the evil entity's goals or ambitions in any real capacity. Maybe i'm just spoiled(?), but I was just wanting to be sure that your primary antagonist was more than just a 2-dimensional boogedy man. (shrug)  It would be interesting if you put quirks about its behavior in, for instance-- It has goals besides trying to murderate you into pink paste, after all-- so giving it conflicting goals in that respect as the protagonist, to cause it to present emergent behaviors can greatly increase the gameplay immersion.

Depending on how much this entity has to potentially lose by being forced to hang around by some meddling humans, its outlook on being summoned can be quite different, making its behavior and priorities different. The "weaker" (rather, less well established) demonic entities may strongly desire to stay here, where the native creatures are so weak and easily conquered-- while the arch-demon types with whole worlds already under their thumbs may percieve their summoning entirely differently, and have much at risk by being summoned--- Some may actively rampage to destroy their own altars to return to their dominions as quickly as possible. I was just pointing out that in most prevailing stories about demons, the demon itself has motives and a very poignant opinion about the practice of summoning-- there IS a reason why demons are summoned into a circle into which they are ritually bound; they more often than not resent the summoners who seek to enslave it.

Making each and every "mission" have a different demon, with a different group of power-seeking morons conjuring up something that they shouldn't, each with a different take on the situation-- could well prove very clever. On some levels, the best course of action may be to instead of destroying the altars, instead destroy the ritual binding-- loosing the demon from the cultist's magical compulsions. (Then watching the carnage as the demon itself systematically exterminates the cultists, and destroys the altars used to drag it there.)  In other cases, doing that would be very very foolish.  Even more enticing, is the prospect for some of these demons to "Know about you" or your organization. If summoning is this frequent, then depending on the outlook of the demon you could be seen as a beneficial cleanup service, or as a potential obstacle or menace.  Again, I could easily see lesser demonic entities seeking to gain a slice of already dominated planes of reality by more powerful agencies, "Helpfully" giving cultists some very dangerous instruction manuals, and having a very strong vested interest in having those summonings continue uninterrupted.

EG-- Imagine if we could give some meddling interdimensional aliens a sure fire way to summon glorious leader, Kim Jong Un and his entire cabinet away from north korea-- or really, any other world leadership for that matter. We could cripple the heads of state of opposed nations, just by some simple exploitations. There is a lot of potential for progressive plot development there. The demon being summoned MAY actively contact the protagonist. Such a demon may even give you a list of other cults or summoned demons that need to be sent back home, to avoid something even more diabolical.

There's also, of course, the potential for an otherwise benign demon being what is summoned. The murkiness and innate perversion of forced subjugation that a demonic summoning implies can take on all kinds of "unexpected" colour, perhaps the demon summoned is a frightened child? Perhaps the demon is actually the equivalent of a humanitarian figure that opposes some arch demon's rule? Maybe something thats a darker, twisted shade of those possibilities? The possibilities there are nearly endless.

The protagonist having such very weak protective magic on their own can be used as a very powerful game mechanic device, as forming alliances in such inter-dimensional power plays could offer some unique perks. Calling in favors, so to speak.

I understand that such considerations are a bit premature, when all you really want right now is just a workable game engine. I just think it's healthy to think about how you want this vehicle to drive, when designing the wheels is all.

[GiglameshDespair]

To be honest for a game like this it can be a 2d boogeyman because having otherwise doesn't, in fact, make a difference for most of them. A good plot comes a lot later, and can be molded to fit the final game rather than the other way round.

[Araph]

For the purposes of this game, I don't know how well a more rounded antagonist would work.

Bear in mind that, as a multiplayer game, its main selling point is that you can scare your friends. It's pretty much impossible to explore the interactions between demonic entities when there's, on any given map, a single demon controlled by one player.

It seems to me that the best way to handle this would be to have a generic-seeming villain, but leave enough bits of information to make it clear that there's something more that the humans in the setting don't know.

[My Name is Immaterial]

Maybe you could have a pool of information that those little tidbits are taken from, creating a unique mythos for every game.

[wierd]

I was thinking proceedural plot generator.

Each session has a proceedurally, but logically generated mythos, with the creature's AI being adapted by the proceedural generation algorithm.

That would prevent the players from developing "Gamey" tactics, like blocking hallways, or using lures.  The behavior of the entity would be essentially randomized, but in line with the setting-- forcing the players to interact with the set in a more than superficial fashion.

[My Name is Immaterial]

Each session has a proceedurally, but logically generated mythos, with the creature's AI being adapted by the proceedural generation algorithm.

I thought that a person was playing the creature.