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Author Topic: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)  (Read 4308 times)

moseythepirate

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2013, 02:10:45 am »

Just a bit of feedback on the changes; it occurs to me that ironbone is more an expression of orcish shamanistic tendencies, whereas the blacksmoke furnace is an expression of their industrial tendencies. It just seems weird to me that the twain shall meet there. I would advocate leaving the furnace be on that account. Unless there's something I'm missing, of course; I haven't played orcs in at least 6 months.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2013, 02:36:01 am »

Just a bit of feedback on the changes; it occurs to me that ironbone is more an expression of orcish shamanistic tendencies, whereas the blacksmoke furnace is an expression of their industrial tendencies. It just seems weird to me that the twain shall meet there. I would advocate leaving the furnace be on that account. Unless there's something I'm missing, of course; I haven't played orcs in at least 6 months.

I actually really like that sentiment; the description of the Taiga Orcs in the manual definitely talks about the conflict between the old ways and the new ways.

The gotcha is that the blacksmoke furnace is what allows orcs to remove rust from iron and steel. However your trading partners only bring the rusty iron, your enemies tend to bring mithril and steel, and your workshops can only make ironbone and bloodsteel at this point. In my last game (on an iron-free map), actually getting those first couple of iron bars took a long, long time, despite the fact that I was slowly cladding my troops in mithril (from hunting elves).

So the blacksmoke furnace is a bottle-neck, and it's not intended to one. You need iron to make the furnance to clean your rusty iron (which orcs are swimming in).

We could have a reaction somewhere that converts ironbone to iron, that would solve the bottleneck, keep the thematic nature of the building materials, and not change gameplay balance at all. However I haven't figured out where that's best suited to run; suggestions definitely welcome! (If nothing else we could add a 'exchange 3 ironbone for 2 iron' at the Freelancer's, but it doesn't really feel appropriate there...)

~ T
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Meph

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2013, 02:37:31 am »

Come on. Between mining iron, trading iron, goblinite and ironbark trees, this is not a problem. Just leave it at iron, like it was before.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2013, 03:14:18 am »

Come on. Between mining iron, trading iron, goblinite and ironbark trees, this is not a problem. Just leave it at iron, like it was before.

Between mining iron (not available on all maps), trading iron (not available to orcs; their trade partners don't have iron), goblinite (also not available to orcs, unless you declare war on your allies; even then they may bring rusty stuff), and ironbark trees (degrading orcs to the level of elves), there's actually a legitimate bottleneck here.

I'm happy to leave it at iron, but only if orcs actually have a non-nuisance way of obtaining it if their map is short on minerals.

~ T
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CptCrunchy

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2013, 12:05:31 pm »

I agree with T, my last orc fort went years without steel or iron, even though I had loads of rusty iron and rusty steel.  I had to request some ironbark from traders, and it's slightly frustrating to have your whole industry put on hold and wait a year for three bars worth of iron.
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Meph

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2013, 12:52:22 pm »

Ok. I didnt know that the tradepartners and homeciv caravan wouldnt bring it.
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someone12345

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2013, 02:32:53 pm »

Orc as Tarkuul Bagakhamuurz Bonecrafter/Spearorc. Just take any orc and assign bonecarver job and add to spear squad.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #22 on: December 25, 2013, 11:53:22 pm »

Ok. I didnt know that the tradepartners and homeciv caravan wouldnt bring it.

I need to check if the homeciv will bring it, but I definitely remember also starving for regular iron. However I really do agree that 'ironbone => traditional', 'iron => industrial' is the way to go thematically.

I've put forward a thematically pleasing proposal in the orc rebalance thread. Discussion there is appreciated! :)

Quote
Orc as Tarkuul Bagakhamuurz Bonecrafter/Spearorc. Just take any orc and assign bonecarver job and add to spear squad.

Done! Are you happy if I shorten to just Tarkuul if required?

~ T
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someone12345

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2013, 10:24:32 am »

snip

Done! Are you happy if I shorten to just Tarkuul if required?

~ T
Yes.
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moseythepirate

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2013, 05:36:23 pm »

Couldn't you deal with the blacksmoke furnace bottleneck simply by allowing it to use any metal bar? Again, I haven't played orcs in a long time, so if there is a compelling reason against it, feel free to fill me in.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2013, 01:21:19 am »

Couldn't you deal with the blacksmoke furnace bottleneck simply by allowing it to use any metal bar? Again, I haven't played orcs in a long time, so if there is a compelling reason against it, feel free to fill me in.

We could, but I like that even less. Who does heavy industry with equipment made out of copper or zinc? ;)
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Meph

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2013, 10:14:03 am »

Why not add a REACTION_CLASS:IRON to iron and rusty iron, and allow both? It shouldnt really matter if the material is rusted a bit, if you build an entire building with it. Its not high tech, its a furnace. This way people can build it with either iron or rusty iron.
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2013, 10:30:53 am »

Why not add a REACTION_CLASS:IRON to iron and rusty iron, and allow both? It shouldnt really matter if the material is rusted a bit, if you build an entire building with it. Its not high tech, its a furnace. This way people can build it with either iron or rusty iron.

Wha... You can do that?  That solves all my problems really elegantly! Thank you! :)

~ T
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2014, 02:12:47 am »

So, with the orc rebalance having reached the play-testing stage... :)



Once we get everything set up I'll be starting a special thread for UnholinessSparked, and will post a link to it here. :)

~ T
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Urist McTeellox

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Re: Let's Play Orc Fortress (prelude)
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2014, 04:48:52 am »

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