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[makeinu]

Forgive, please, my inattention. It is not deliberate, today is kicking my ass.

[Tiruin]

Ooh, ooh, ooh!

Are we allowed to write stories too?? :D:D

I usually run it kind of like a D&D game.  In this case there's a lore established by previous campaigns, and if you don't add anything in then I'll generally just screw around and please myself.  By all means... audience participation in the creation of your character is welcome *_*

I don't know, or have ever played D&D in my life. u__u
You know how sad I am about it, yet how happy I am to also participate in these kinds of cases. 

I'd like to start off my own participation on this new Day by remarking that I love you guys.

*mod scurries off and observes passionately*

*squee*

Err, wait, can we do day-flavor actions?

Toaster

Jim:

Toaster, if you were Kingmaker who would you have picked?

Also, is your herald what I think it is?

Someone I trusted to make a good D1 judgement when there's not a lot of information to go by.  From the current list, that'd be either you or ZU, who seems to have a strong gut for this despite his terseness.

[...]
TolyK:  How in the world do you pronounce your last name?  How can you suffer a word with so many consonants to live?

How are you on the council, given you're clearly not Danish?  Same question to Tiruin.  (As best I can tell, you two are the only non-Danes.)  Tiruin, I'm also curious how you feel about not having any direct control over the lynch.

> ...So I don't have a good gut? :I

> I'm in the council due to connections to allies of the crown and the promise of aid-Denmark called for help, and even the past rule (pre/post Alexandersen) accepted foreign aid (aaaand non-foreign but in our lands-aid). And I've got Venezian blood, so HAH, take that northeners! This is partly also for Europe!

Tiruin, I'm also curious how you feel about not having any direct control over the lynch.

I smile and feel elated at this. I don't play mafia the conventional way-instead I go for the essence within it, which I don't think most see my play as. Details within the details, search for them, conclude, re-search and check back. While I don't have any direct control over the lynch, it still plays with my playstyle--the psychology of bolding people's names while asking them notes.
Granted, the click of red doesn't work so it sorta dilutes my case, however it doesn't change how I'll play at all!

Query for you Toaster: Why do you think non-Danish has a special significant to note than Danish? That's sorta...biased, and I have a feeling you may agree.
However, why so? Or why not?

Vector:  If the Kingmaker dies, will a new player become Kingmaker?  Is this person guaranteed Town?

...Ehh? Guaranteed Town?
Why'd you ask that part?

Everyone: Introducing yourself, even in the most basic of terms, should be treated merely a formality. A formality that I shall have to enforce. If you do not for some reason wish your identity to be known, well, that is how a traitor would behave.

zombie urist:  Your heraldry seems to speak of life, green growing things, and peace.  Why did you select the symbols you did?

Spoiler (click to show/hide) Hiiii~!! My name is Louiiiisa Von Solheim~! House of the Sun! The Sun! The Sun brings life! Everyone depends the glorious rays of the Sun! My hearldry shows a simple ecosystem. The humble honeybee feeds on the nectar of the sunflower. In return, because sunflowers do not self pollinate, the bee helps transfer pollen between the sunflowers. [1] The sunflower however has deeper corrola tubes than most flowers. The butterfly, with her long proboscis can easily reach the nectar. This is why bees and butterflies are found with a higher proportion than other insects near the sunflower. [2] The entire ecosystem, however, is actually powered by the majestic beams from the Sun! All life is dependent on the Sun! Would you like a pamplet Miss Cille??? Louisa hands Cille Edithsdatter a pamplet.

This is cute and wow ZU. Love the sun.
Oh gods this reminds me of Toaster/Lenglon's Rose/Lily flavor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

This RP stuff sure takes a lot of time. 

Not unless you're used to it. :p

Also question, ZU: if you see someone scummy, how will you out them for the King-if said King was seen as inattentive to your words beforehand?

Jim

Why do you ask?

Because usually whenever there's even marginal flavor relevance in a game you make it your mission to roleplay as much as possible.

>_>
<_<
In truth, I make it my mission if roleplay is possible-and if the game is reallytruly fun for me.
So..yeah.
Query, Jim:

Since you were in the last Kingmaker this forum had, what differences from it will the BYOR setting make?  Do you think it will come down to a silly end like the last one did?

I was?

I don't remember.

Oh, fuck, Kingmaker 4. That game.

I'm confident in wubadubadooooo's ability to balance a Kingmaker, so hopefully the game won't be complete trainwreck like KM4. For balancing purposes the BYOR part is not significantly relevant since we only sent in heralds and not roles.

I saw KM 4, but am curious-how did you see it as a trainwreck (sans your words in deadchat..)?
I mean..yeah, it can be easily implied but...I'd like to hear from a veteran of those types.

makeinu

Forgive, please, my inattention. It is not deliberate, today is kicking my ass.

Reading everything by candlelight kicks any ass. :S
Hope you're doing well!

[Vector]

Vector:  If the Kingmaker dies, will a new player become Kingmaker?  Is this person guaranteed Town?

A new player will become Kingmaker.  I will check with Webadict on the other thing, just to be sure I understand his intentions with the mechanics.

The rules for choosing a Kingmaker are that the player MUST be Town and MUST be alive. If they die (permanently, as in revives would not change them) or are converted, they cease to be the Kingmaker and a new one is chosen. If, at any point, there is no one eligible to be Kingmaker, the vote system becomes regular voting, with all players being able to vote.

I'm going to add to this that if someone steals their power or they get depowered or anything like that (I'm sure I'm not covering all of the possibilities), same thing!  There's going to be a town Kingmaker.

Err, wait, can we do day-flavor actions?

*sigh*

Yes   No, seriously, that's one of my favorite things about running these games.  So yes, just like last time, you can do day-flavor actions.

[Tiruin]

Vector:  If the Kingmaker dies, will a new player become Kingmaker?  Is this person guaranteed Town?

A new player will become Kingmaker.  I will check with Webadict on the other thing, just to be sure I understand his intentions with the mechanics.

The rules for choosing a Kingmaker are that the player MUST be Town and MUST be alive. If they die (permanently, as in revives would not change them) or are converted, they cease to be the Kingmaker and a new one is chosen. If, at any point, there is no one eligible to be Kingmaker, the vote system becomes regular voting, with all players being able to vote.

I'm going to add to this that if someone steals their power or they get depowered or anything like that (I'm sure I'm not covering all of the possibilities), same thing!  There's going to be a town Kingmaker.

I seriously am reading too much of the previous KMs. What I remember is that scum could also be Kingmaker.

Yes   No, seriously, that's one of my favorite things about running these games.  So yes, just like last time, you can do day-flavor actions.

YEESSSSSSS
^{OK now not to go all ecstatic and do everything that may lead to hmm what to do what to exactly do must not stress Vector hmmm}

I wonder if we can get Solifuge/Webadict to write. :3
Anyway thanks much!

[Toaster]

Jim:

I'm confident in wubadubadooooo's ability to balance a Kingmaker, so hopefully the game won't be complete trainwreck like KM4. For balancing purposes the BYOR part is not significantly relevant since we only sent in heralds and not roles.

Maybe.  What do you think it is?

This?

I'm curious how it will shake out, since I personally wrote off the gametype (from a moderation perspective) as not worth the effort.

And let's just say that my herald features a SCREAMING FREEDOM EAGLE.


Cheeetar:  Fair enough.


Tiruin:  I have too much trouble reading you to say for sure anything about your gut, really.

Fair enough re your nonDanity.

Query for you Toaster: Why do you think non-Danish has a special significant to note than Danish? That's sorta...biased, and I have a feeling you may agree.
However, why so? Or why not?

I will be happy to answer that question after TolyK and ZU answer my questions on the subject.

Vector:  If the Kingmaker dies, will a new player become Kingmaker?  Is this person guaranteed Town?

...Ehh? Guaranteed Town?
Why'd you ask that part?

Because it's extremely relevant, and a core part of the Kingmaker ruleset.  I didn't want to assume it was still there since it wasn't mentioned in the rules.

Why?  Anything that creates a confirmed townie is a difference maker in Mafia.  Here, if someone claims Kingmaker and isn't counterclaimed, then they are 100% town.  If they are counterclaimed, it is 100% certain that one of the two is lying scum.  Think about the implications of this in a LYLO situation (especially five player) and you'll see why I wanted to be sure.

I seriously am reading too much of the previous KMs. What I remember is that scum could also be Kingmaker.

This wasn't the case in either of mine (3 and 4).



Speaking of LYLO, Vector:  Do we know how large the Mafia team is?

[Vector]

Speaking of LYLO, Vector:  Do we know how large the Mafia team is?

Nope :3

[Superblackcat]

Woah, it started!

Superblackcat:  What is your gift?

My, whatatata?
You guys should be able to guess which one is me... the herald makes it quite obvious.

SuperBlackCat: Hello there luckycat. I am curious-could you give your experience with forum mafia in general, and how this may affect your play in Kingmaker? I do note an aggressive streak at times-what's the purpose of that?

My total experience with Forum mafia? Here?

Well, I came two BMs ago, I believe, And I've played in most of the games since then, counting, paranormal, all the BMs, BM sprint... and I think that's it.

I play differently every game, or maybe I don't. I mostly play on my gut, and I don't really have a set 'to-do' list. I do however have some things I look out for.

I do have an aggressive streak at sometimes, it's probably the day, the stars, and moon are all lining up on that day ;P. Sometimes I feel that aggressive will work better.

My opinions stated within this thread may not be my actual opinions, and are mostly used to invoke a reaction. Please do not take what I say here to outside mafia. Thank you very much.

[makeinu]

From the end of the council chamber, a slight sound, the scraping of metal on stone, drifts. There, partly cloaked in shadow, a great bear of a man stands still, unmoved since the King's entrance. His armor, never removed that anyone living has ever seen, gleams in the morning light, black as the midnight sky, silver as the lambent moon, the sanguine dragon of his family's crest emblazoned on his breastplate as on his shield.

Viggo, sixth son of Valentin, Duke of Bornholm, wears a blank expression, tinged faintly with grief, as it always is. He stares through the room, looking past it at some distant scene, unaware of the proceedings taking place before him. His greying beard quivers now and again, as though he were quietly speaking to himself.

His story is known to you, as it is known to all the kingdom. How his beloved Iseult was taken from him by dis-ease, his grief immeasurable, as only the truest of love can engender upon its loss. How the Queen, in her gentle wisdom, took him to her council as her most faithful knight.

Since her death, each night, he has walked the walls of the castle, ne'er mind the weather, peering always to the north. As if to discover the assassin, sent by Fortinbras, by sheer force of will and cleave from him his life, and a confession. As if, by sheer force of will, to break the paralysis the Queen's death had placed upon the land.

Such treachery as this could not, would not, go unpunished. Not so long as he lived.

Isn't that how the stories go?

He turns, and sees your gaze upon him. Realizing then that the King has given the order to be seated, and he has dishonored that order, he bows.

"Your forgiveness, my liege. I had ... There was, but for a moment ... something ..."

Speaking no further, he takes his seat.


zombie urist:

Makeinu: Will your deep-seated hatred of vigs affect your outlook this game? Specifically what do you think about the fact that the king is basically a 1-shot day-vig?

I don't see the king in a Kingmaker game in that light. The Vigilante, in a normal game, is a disruptive force, taking into his own hands the power of judge, jury, and executioner. Any kills he makes are not necessarily supported by the arguments around him, and serve only to further confuse scum-hunting efforts. The only remedy to that is a role- and kill-claim, and that still doesn't alter the facts of the matter, that they more often than not hit Town at least once. Plus, barring a role-flip, there's no way to know the Vig is Town.

In this format, however, the King is the only kill. His is the lynch vote, the only one. And, by the nature of the game, he's confirmed Town. Thus, though he may in the end make a poor decision, based on the arguments put before him, at least there is no mystery regarding the nature of his kill.

What are your thoughts on what might be gleaned from our heraldry, in game terms?


Jim:

How green am I to your eyes, compared to makeinu?

Probably greener. I've only played the one game with him, but I think he has a better reserve of experience to draw upon when he finds things to pick at people over.

Awwww, now I'm all embarrassed.

Why the comparison to makeinu?

I was rather wondering that myself.

You ask whether we can gloss over the flavor, rather than looking for clues and riddles. How much bearing do you think the flavor will have on the game's outcome?


Caz!

We meet again on the field of wits. Well met.

An ankh is an unusual cross variant for an emblazon. What is the significance?


Imp:

Is that a platypus rampant on your emblazon? Your colors speak of peace, innocence, joy, hope. How do the charges you selected relate to that?

You're going to make novels I'm going to have to read all game, aren't you?


Tiruin:

If you were on the throne, on whom would your suspicion fall most heavily right now? Why?


Cheetar:

How does it feel to be cleared from the beginning of Day 1? Are you concerned for what this bodes come nightfall?


Urist Imiknorris:

From a family of inventors comes a historian to the court. Underground inventors, nonetheless. Are you a gnome?


Persus13:

If your shield is, as you imply, not related to this situation, then why 13 golden crowns?


Toaster:

This is the first BYOR I've ever played, and the first actual Kingmaker. What, in your estimation, should I pay attention to as to differences due to those two factors, comparing this to a normal game?


Tolyk:

If you were one of the assassins, and had to make the choice of whom to kill right now, who would it be? Why?


Superblackcat:

Please, introduce us to your character. What's in the gift-wrapped box?

[Vector]

OK now not to go all ecstatic and do everything that may lead to hmm what to do what to exactly do must not stress Vector hmmm

Don't worry about that :]  I'll take care of myself!  You just help make the story awesome, mmkay?


b-by the way I am not sure I have said how awesome and inspiring you guys are enough times recently... *_*  I'll have to keep working to make better and better games!

[Cheeetar]

Cheetar:

How does it feel to be cleared from the beginning of Day 1? Are you concerned for what this bodes come nightfall?

To my current knowledge, there is no rule to the role of Kingmaker which disables him from selecting scum or third party as a King. However, rest assured that I am of the proper allegiance, and you are right to assume me an avid supporter of the Queen. I am not concerned by the machinations of the traitors- I have faced their kind before, and even if I fall in challenging them they will not survive long after.

[makeinu]

Ah, you're right. I misread. It's the Kingmaker that must be Town.

[zombie urist]

Happy new year everybody!

新年快乐！恭喜发财！

[Tiruin]

Happy new year everybody!

新年快乐！恭喜发财！

^

[Jim Groovester]

Query, Jim:

Since you were in the last Kingmaker this forum had, what differences from it will the BYOR setting make?  Do you think it will come down to a silly end like the last one did?

I was?

I don't remember.

Oh, fuck, Kingmaker 4. That game.

I'm confident in wubadubadooooo's ability to balance a Kingmaker, so hopefully the game won't be complete trainwreck like KM4. For balancing purposes the BYOR part is not significantly relevant since we only sent in heralds and not roles.

I saw KM 4, but am curious-how did you see it as a trainwreck (sans your words in deadchat..)?
I mean..yeah, it can be easily implied but...I'd like to hear from a veteran of those types.

Alright. I had to go recheck what I said in dead chat to refamiliarize myself with the reasons for why Kingmaker 4 was a trainwreck. I also can see that my comments make me look like a douche. Eh, what else is new.

Anyways, Kingmaker 4 was several players' absolute first introduction to the game of mafia. So they had no idea what to do, so they did what comes naturally: play really, really, really, really, really, really, really horribly. And even among new players their play was horrible, which is really saying something.

So we endured paranoid new players who amongst their many faults completely failed to heed any sort of advice, posted frequently without any concern for grammar, coherency, consistent arguments, or even sensible arguments at all, and also insulted my ego, which is really the most important fault, of course. And then it was revealed that the complete newbie Kingmaker was choosing Kings randomly, which was trainwreck icing on the trainwreck cake. And through that trainwreck the town still managed to win. It was at this point that we concluded the gametype as we were playing it was fundamentally broken, if the town could win despite such shitty play.

The players who weren't complete beginners demanded that these new players be forcibly replaced midgame, the game was so bad. The game was so bad that some of the forum regulars at the time considered creating a Hall of Shame, with that game as its first entrant, the game was so bad. The game was so bad that it made me decide that the Beginner's Mafia games were doing such a shit job of teaching new players how to play that my direct intervention was necessary to bring them up to speed, to avoid experiencing a horrible trainwreck of a game like that ever, ever again, the game was so bad.

I mean, just read it. You'll see what I mean.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

From the end of the council chamber, a slight sound, the scraping of metal on stone, drifts. There, partly cloaked in shadow, a great bear of a man stands still, unmoved since the King's entrance. His armor, never removed that anyone living has ever seen, gleams in the morning light, black as the midnight sky, silver as the lambent moon, the sanguine dragon of his family's crest emblazoned on his breastplate as on his shield.

Viggo, sixth son of Valentin, Duke of Bornholm, wears a blank expression, tinged faintly with grief, as it always is. He stares through the room, looking past it at some distant scene, unaware of the proceedings taking place before him. His greying beard quivers now and again, as though he were quietly speaking to himself.

His story is known to you, as it is known to all the kingdom. How his beloved Iseult was taken from him by dis-ease, his grief immeasurable, as only the truest of love can engender upon its loss. How the Queen, in her gentle wisdom, took him to her council as her most faithful knight.

Since her death, each night, he has walked the walls of the castle, ne'er mind the weather, peering always to the north. As if to discover the assassin, sent by Fortinbras, by sheer force of will and cleave from him his life, and a confession. As if, by sheer force of will, to break the paralysis the Queen's death had placed upon the land.

Such treachery as this could not, would not, go unpunished. Not so long as he lived.

Isn't that how the stories go?

He turns, and sees your gaze upon him. Realizing then that the King has given the order to be seated, and he has dishonored that order, he bows.

"Your forgiveness, my liege. I had ... There was, but for a moment ... something ..."

Speaking no further, he takes his seat.

Mark II glances at Viggo. His mouth begins quivering and a tear begins welling at his eye. How surprising it was to be so moved by watching a man stare blankly at a wall for five minutes, stammer, and then sit down!

You ask whether we can gloss over the flavor, rather than looking for clues and riddles. How much bearing do you think the flavor will have on the game's outcome?

By Vector's own words flavor and mechanics are separated. So, to answer your question, none at all.

stuff

This is all very nice, but do you have anything game-relevant to add?

[Imp]

Persus13:

Can you tell which names are Danish and which aren't?

Danish naming traditions actually were very tightly connected to use of the datter/søn(sen in more recent years)  I wouldn't be surprised to find that only those of us with a patronymic paired with datter/sen are actually of typical and pure Danish ancestry, with the others actually being from other European countries or having somewhat exotic family situations. (though there are Danish surnames which do not follow that pattern).

'von' is commonly part of German names, and 'heim' as part of a surname is very often German or Norwegian.

Brzęczyszczykiewicz is almost certainly Polish.

Gwenhwyfar is usually Welsh.

More details on Danish surnames for the interested:  http://www.lenekottal.dk/artikler/artikler.php?aid=20&lang=en  (about datter and sen)
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dnkcen/FAQ/1000surnames.html  (modern-day 1000 most common Danish surnames)

I am Gwenhwyfar, who was found in a forest with a shield by the queen and became her advisor.

Were you still a child when you were found?  Do you know who named you?

Toaster:

Imp:

10 golden crowns

Spoiler: I see it's already been mentioned, but I can't resist (click to show/hide)

Gosh, I use my loupe... I just can't see that well, even with it sometimes.  Not every 'counting' problem comes from a problem with 'counting', sometimes there's other things to take into account.  However I appreciate that the daughter of our greatest Merchant family chose to display a gently adulterated Accounting book.[/quote]

On a serious note, how do you feel about not having any direct control over the lynch?

Still deciding, but I think I might like it.  I do want someone or something to be in control, and that someone had better be sane or really don't enjoy the goings on at all (insane people 'in control' rarely are in enough control to be 'in control').  That someone doesn't have to be myself though.

Do you know why you, of the various members of your family, was the one selected to serve the Queen's Council?

not-feeling-like-a-zombie-today urist

Imp: Why are almost all your questions flavor related when Vector said flavor isn't relevant to the game?

That's a very strange question, ZU.  The 'flavor' I asked about was primarily directly related to the shields - and those shields came from each player, for all the imagery has been filtered through another person's interpretation and artistic ability.  Asking about these shields, both from the players who picked the imagery to be used and asking opinions of preference about the shields overall is a way to attempt to ellicit information about others' thought patterns and intentions.  A successful way?  We'll see.  But psychologists play a little game involving ink blots and the impressions people get from such things... surely such a game doesn't only function through ink blots.

What purpose does a FoS serve in a kingmaker game, when you are not currently King?

The majority of questions I see are about 'flavor' of one taste or another, from character names to references of darkness and light, to the heraldry, to our character nationalities.

I asked the questions I did because they seem and feel appropriate to me to ask at that point in play.  I'll refer you to the concept of RVS questioning, and how we just passed a N0 where we recieved flavor PMs (some more than others apparently) and how we were invited to interact with our moderator in a flavorful fashion.  This game's flavor, one form of it or another, is very much on my mind now and when I selected those questions.  Personally, I've been swimming in the theme of this game for the last dayish, and I'm finding it refreshing and enjoyable - it's close to exactly what my real-life wearied, stressed, and hassled spirit needed at this time.  (Thank you, Vector and other flavor-and-other-game-content providers!)

Of all who ask about one flavor of the flavor or another, why do you focus on my focus upon it?

Jim Groovester:

How green am I to your eyes, compared to makeinu?

Probably greener. I've only played the one game with him, but I think he has a better reserve of experience to draw upon when he finds things to pick at people over.

Why the comparison to makeinu?

Relates to the current BM.  makeinu became the IC that you said I was too green to be, and I was curious how you saw him in that regard in comparison (as you said nothing about him when he volunteered).

makeinu:

Imp:
Is that a platypus rampant on your emblazon?

No, its a star-nosed mole.

Your colors speak of peace, innocence, joy, hope. How do the charges you selected relate to that?

What charges I selected where now?  I don't understand what you're asking me, explain/link?

You're going to make novels I'm going to have to read all game, aren't you?

Maybe I'll be moved to make novels, maybe I won't.  Not sure you have to do anything either way, but you can read whatever you want, or not read if you don't want.

In this format, however, the King is the only kill. His is the lynch vote, the only one. And, by the nature of the game, he's confirmed Town.

I understand that the KingMaker is Town for Sure.  What proves that each and every King is Town?  I understood that the King is whomever the KingMaker selects, and the KingMaker can select anyone alive?

Ah, you're right. I misread. It's the Kingmaker that must be Town.

ooh.  So now that you understand this - does that change your answer to the King/vig question at all?

Superblackcat:

Woah, it started!

Superblackcat:  What is your gift?

My, whatatata?

I'm asking about your shield.  It appears to be emblazoned with a gift.  Is that a gift?  What is that gift?