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[Elephant Parade]

I'll do the same in a bit. Off the top of my head though, the loaded question at day start is a good start for why EP is scum. I'll be back with more in a bit.

While you're waiting, try to think of some questions. Things you want to know. You can't always rely on others to do your scum hunting for you, even if you're not a suspect.

I couldn't think of any other interesting ways to say "you're scum." If I wanted to ask a loaded question, I would make it more subtle.

Seriously, is that the best reason you can think of for me being scum? Can you not find anything else?

[NativeForeigner]

Seriously, is that the best reason you can think of for me being scum? Can you not find anything else?

I'll do the same in a bit. Off the top of my head though, the loaded question at day start is a good start for why EP is scum. I'll be back with more in a bit.

Quit reaching, scumbag.

[NativeForeigner]

Alright, I've come across why EP is scum. In short, he's been active-lurking the entire fifty pages of the game. All of his posts, he's either making excuses, asking other people to ask questions, providing another analysis on everyone, quoting large portions of text to inflate his post, or accusing other people of active-lurking while contributing little.

I haven't exactly been a star player myself, but I don't try to hide behind active-lurking.

Useful posts of his: [1] [2] aaaaaand that's about it. I went back as far as page 30.

Useful but inflated: [1] and then there was one I lost that was basically a bunch of quotes with some comments attached. That falls under the useless and inflated category. PPE: Found it

One thing in particular stood out. Starting here [1], EP claims he's feeling better. Great, we should be expecting more from him soon!

But then we get this... almost three days later. Then he posted some reads shortly after. Not terrible. Not terribly helpful, either. And then that's it. Another three days later (past two extends) EP sits back and does nothing. He hadn't even voted by the day end. Not only did we not get the promised content, but I get the feeling he avoided voting out of fear of being accused of wagoning, bussing, or simply falling under scrutiny for voting anyone but TDS. It's not that difficult to hop on to throw a vote with a short reason. Especially if you've been given almost a week to do so.

Another thing that caught my eye is the emphasis he puts on how disappointed he was he didn't get a power role here. There is literally no reason to include that in your post unless you're trying to seem more convincing with false disappointment. Actual Vanilla Townie has no reason to do this.

Finally, we go back to his post today. Tossing the loaded question aside, we move on to the basic question he asks me about the roleflip. Well, it's a question. Not a particularly impacting one, though. Seems like he's trying to appear invested. He follows it up with some quotes to inflate his posts, mentions how my posts were short. Mostly my responses, and usually ones that don't need a paragraph to answer. He accuses me of active-lurking. Then he asks you the same question he asked me. There are many more useful questions that he could have asked. Speculating about the flipped roles is more or less useless for anything other than confirming the setup when there's three people left.

The next several posts are just brilliant looking back.

Here's a play-by-play:
[1] "YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ASK ME QUESTIONS?! HOW SCUMMY! LET ME NOT ASK YOU QUESTIONS WHILE DEMANDING YOU ASK QUESTIONS."

[2] I explain I'm not asking him questions because it does scientist little good. I make it clear that I'm willing to answer any questions asked of me. I point out that I have all the information I needed, and I even provided a handy analysis of how I came to the conclusion. I point out that I welcome scientist asking questions of either of us.

[3] He accuses me of making a loaded statement (I think that just might not have been well-thought out beforehand). He suggests we ask each other questions. He then tries to make it a point that I haven't asked him any questions. He fails to ask me any questions other than why I haven't asked him a question, which I answered in my previous post.

[4] I reiterate that our questions to each other do scientist little good and that scientist should be the one asking the questions.

[5] He's still trying to get me to ask him pointless questions without asking any of his own.

A few minor posts, nothing exciting from either of us.

[6] He emphasizes a portion of my quote completely out of context to try to make it seem like I have nothing on him.

[7] I emphasize the parts of my quote that make it clear I planned to come back with more. I accuse EP of reaching.

[This post] I come back with more.

Sorry if this is all a bit haphazard. It's 2:30AM and I'm exhausted and really should be sleeping, but the day ends tomorrow and we have no extensions left. I needed to get this out here.

[Elephant Parade]

Shame on me for not realizing this started.

NativeForeigner: If you were a mafia goon, would you go for the experienced people or the new ones first?

Typically I go for the experienced people first. They're the ones you don't want to be alone with. But if a newbie messed up, I'd be more than happy to take advantage of it.

Native: Do you still refuse to participate in rvs?

I'm still largely against throwing out a vote without reason. RVS votes hold no power.

NativeForeigner has yet to post. You around?

I'm around. Apparently I'm bad at realizing when things start anymore.

Toaster: Native needs prod.

Actually, thanks for that. I probably wouldn't have realized this had started otherwise.

@NativeForeigner, Caz:
Vote somebody.

Is there a particular reason you're concerned about my lack of vote on D1?

Caz:

How do you feel about the build up of votes on yourself? Do you feel there's substantial reasoning for the votes?

More when I do more than skim for buzz words. Hopefully that's soon.

Apologizes for being late and asks a feeling question.

What do you make of the votes against me? Are they valid?

Great question. I usually have low expectations of D1 votes unless someone really screws up. And usually then it's a towny who goofed.

But let's take a look at the voters, yeah?

Caz:

Elephant Parade: Now that you replaced out of the BM instead of here, are you going to put your full attention on Limerick Mafia and help destroy the town?

Freudian Slip?

Holy dorf, Caz, Elephant Parade.

Imperial Guardsman: Is that all there is to your vote? A poor choice of words, and a failure to explain the FoS?

Are you content with letting your vote sit there with no truly valid reasoning? I mean, I know it's D1, but surely you can do better than that. Please fully explain why you think Caz should be lynched and why Elephant Parade is on your watchlist. I'm interested, considering you're the lynching vote.

Persus: You're also throwing a weak vote and just letting it sit. I'm less picky about yours because it wasn't a lynching vote, but it still requires attention. Do you think Caz deserves to die for your original reasoning or is there more to it?

makeinu: Your vote seems valid enough. You threw your vote, you supported it, then you went on to do other things. I don't have anything to really pick apart about it. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I'm not always right.

Caz (again): Let's assume there's a tie involving you and the person you're voting. Let's assume you're convinced this person is scum. Do you break the tie and sacrifice yourself for the flip or do you fight to the bitter end?

NativeForeigner
^hai
I'm curious--what's your viewpoint of this JK9 setup?

^Hai!

I haven't looked too deeply into it. I feel like putting too much emphasis on roles makes it difficult to effectively scum hunt as normal. Though the possibility of a SK and a Vigilante has me worried.

Responds, asks a rhetorical question. He does also ask one legitimate question. Also votes somebody for lazy logic.

If it had a chance of tying the vote, I'd let myself hang I guess.

So you're saying that rather than put some effort into it and try to get someone you're sure is scum hung, you'd just give up and let yourself hang instead? How is that beneficial?

Rhetorical.

Not voting =/= Giving up. Even if I continue posting, if I tie the vote, we lose valuable information on the lynch and I won't be clear Day2 anyway.

I don't know if I'm just not reading this clearly, but it sounds like you'd let your fear of tying the vote prevent you from voting someone who you think is scum. A flip is valuable, yes, but lynching scum is more so. How would you expect to be taken seriously if you dropped your vote on the very person you're trying to convince everyone else is scum? How can you expect them to believe you if you lack conviction? You're sacrificing a very valuable tool by not voting. Scum would see that as a weakness and line up a tie just to keep you from actually voting for who you want to see lynched.

Rhetorical.

Oh, I messed that up. Im not voting myself, BTW, Thats Natives Vote. FOS on Elephant because of his slip, and Caz because hes the scummiest.

With an explanation like that, you may as well be voting yourself.

No questions because everyone's already asked the questions I would.

Caz:

You missed this:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You really think scum have the foresight to tie up votes like that?

Uh... yeah. It happens quite often...

Fine, who are your current suspects and what are you doing to get them lynched?

Continues hassling IG about his vote; scum going for the easy lynch?

Also re-asks a generic question that was missed.

- - - - - Day 1 - - - - -
 + TheDarkStar votes makeinu (bussing for cred)

That is an interesting choice of diction. These are your own notes, you admitted. So you would have no problem using a term that pegs you as scum for yourself. My guess is you probably forgot to change that when you posed your notes.

In short, why "bussing" instead of any other choice of word?

Attacks makeinu for what was either a scumslip or bizarre phrasing. Looks like it was the former, but this is still NF jumping on the obvious scumtells, instead of looking for anything more subtle.

Makeinu

If any slip could be explained away with "Right. Because I'm stupid." or "Do you really think I'm that dumb?", there'd be no game. No, I don't think you're stupid. I think you slipped up. It happens.

Bussing =/= Wagoning.

Bussing is when your scum buddy votes you to make them appear more townlike after you've done something that makes you look too scummy to salvage. They throw you under the bus.

If what you're saying is true, you meant wagoning. He jumped on the bandwagon because he had no thought-out moves to make.

A bit of a difference, I'm sure you can understand why your choice of words worry me.

Continuing to attack makeinu. He was right, but I think that this may have been an attempt to bus.

Elephant Parade: I use the forums for Mafia and that's literally it. I don't open it unless I'm posting and it's been a while. I only found out after sorting through my junk email and I noticed I was prodded.

I work full time, take classes, hosted for the holidays, and I'm married. Busy is a word for it.

Regarding Makeinu: Different forums have different semantics and I can understand where he gets his definition of bus. Typically I look at "throwing someone under the bus" as throwing your buddy under the bus, not just anybody. That aside, while semantics will get you on my watchlist, rarely do I ever consider it reason enough alone to call someone out as scum.

He backs down. This feels even more like bussing to me now.

Ah. In that case, I recommend you keep Bay12 in an App Tab, which automatically opens whenever you open Firefox. Chrome and IE probably have App Tabs as well.

I use Opera. I have it in speed dial. I keep it open when I'm actually playing a round of Mafia, such as now.

No comment.

Spoiler: List of things and scum and peoplesuch (click to show/hide)

NativeForeigner - lurking almost as much as puffer.

Ha, funny. My posts actually have meat to them and I've posted significantly more than puffer. Only thing I've been bad about is missing the start of the game and the end of the weekend. If you've been paying attention, you should be able to pull a lot more than "Lurking" from your observations of me.

Caz, my mind is made up, you are incredibly scummy, and unless you happen to be an Innocent Child, which I severly doubt, you are being lynched. You have been acting incredibly scummy and havent contributed anything to any conversation that doesnt involve your defense.

I'll ask again, since I've yet to see an acceptable answer.

What makes Caz "incredibly scummy"? It's really not a hard question unless you're scum going for an easy lynch. And even then...

Asks somebody about opinions again.

Glad someone pays attention to the roles. In all likelihood he either hid behind Zombie Urist or scum/SK. Doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility of a SK or a vigilante, but it doesn't confirm it either. Gonna read up and post more fully later.

More role stuff.

@Pufferfish:
I know what you did last night.

Pufferfish: Mind elaborating for ToonyMan. What did you do last night? I tend to believe D2 claims like this because they have a tendency to backfire horrifically if the claimer is lying. Doesn't confirm his townhood, but I have little doubt behind the reason for the vote.

Well, Urist Imiknorris, I think you're ignoring that you were one of the people who was most adamant that Caz was scum.

TheDarkStar: Really? Blatant OMGUS? All I've seen from you are reactionary votes when someone calls you on something and lazy explanations for those votes. Please tell us why you're voting for UI. What has he done to come off as scummy to you?

Attacking a lurker. I bet you were expecting to not get a response.

As for voting TDS, you once again bussed a scumpartner for obvious scumtells.

I have this thing called a life that means that I can't be hear every second of the day. If you want my attention, ask me a question; don't just say ANSWER ME NOW.

It's odd how you are making long posts that are simply yelling and that consist of "You're wrong". You seem to be encouraging lynches on people just to get a lynch.

I asked you a question. What's your excuse for not answering that?

Trying to get TDS to answer a question that was missed. Perhaps TDS didn't want to be bussed?

That's incredibly lazy scumhunting. Is that the only reason you think he should be lynched? Should we come after you if he ends up flipping town?

Hah. Hahaha. Complaining about lazy scumhunting.

But let me just say now that I'm only more sure there isn't an SK and I am not certain Pufferfish is necessarily mafia.  Because he isn't here though I can't be wasting my vote unfortunately.  So Unvote for now I'll be back later today.

If you're not sure whether or not Pufferfish is mafia, could you clarify what you think they might be? Maybe tell us what he did at night?

Asking a somewhat obvious question. Perhaps he figured ToonyMan wouldn't answer since he was trying for a gambit?

ToonyMan is lying, Puffer didn't do anything.

Assuming that's true, why do you think ToonyMan would lie about that?

For a gambit, of course.

NativeForeigner

ToonyMan is lying, Puffer didn't do anything.

Assuming that's true, why do you think ToonyMan would lie about that?

Interesting question, but why are you not asking ToonyMan? He seemed pretty adamant he'd caught Pufferfish in the act. If he's lying, I want to know why from him, not speculations from his accused. This isn't even a fair question to ask.

How about it, ToonyMan? Care to share now that you've been called out on the carpet?

I didn't ask ToonyMan because I'm confident enough that he'll address the matter on his own. Didn't really feel the need to ask for something he's probably going to offer up anyway. The reason I asked the accused for his opinion is to get a better idea of how likely it is he's lying about ToonyMan lying. To me, it seems like SCIENTIST is just trying to get another townie out of the way before he goes down. I just want to see where his head is at.

NativeForeigner

ToonyMan is lying, Puffer didn't do anything.

Assuming that's true, why do you think ToonyMan would lie about that?

Interesting question, but why are you not asking ToonyMan? He seemed pretty adamant he'd caught Pufferfish in the act. If he's lying, I want to know why from him, not speculations from his accused. This isn't even a fair question to ask.

How about it, ToonyMan? Care to share now that you've been called out on the carpet?

I didn't ask ToonyMan because I'm confident enough that he'll address the matter on his own. Didn't really feel the need to ask for something he's probably going to offer up anyway. The reason I asked the accused for his opinion is to get a better idea of how likely it is he's lying about ToonyMan lying. To me, it seems like SCIENTIST is just trying to get another townie out of the way before he goes down. I just want to see where his head is at.

No comment.

Unvote. I'll reevaluate the situation later.

Withdrawing his vote, and promising to do more later.

NationalForeigner

I giggled at this.

makeinu: I'll address your concern when I have time to write a proper post.

Commenting, and promising to do more later.

NativeForeigner:

-snip-

I'm curious what your take is now that ToonyMan has admitted it was a bluff under questioning.

Partly because I want to know, and partly because I see you've hardly posted at all. Nor has Urist Imiknorris, come to think of it. I'm beginning to seriously suspect we've got someone trying to active scumlurk here, I'm just not sure which.

However, you two are still pale blips on my scumdar. Others raise my hackles more.

Assuming he's not bluffing about the bluff, it's a risky move but it's high-reward if it works out. Best case: it tricks the target into roleclaiming. Worst case: you get called on it and potentially lynched. I don't think it's a risk scum would actually take.

Analyzing someone's strategy.

Elephant Parade: Regarding your last bit: Scientist replaced Puffer and therefore would know everything he's done or hasn't done.

Responding to something.

Spoiler: Tiruin (click to show/hide)

Aaaaaand I forget NativeForeigner.

...
...
He's in the grey zone.
Starting at [2]: I really missed this guy :S And his old black and white avatar of a detective and a fedora...And I just caught onto the post where he only uses the forums for Mafia. I'll really miss you NF, even though we only know each other here. Through this game. Only. 

Anyways, for him, he...erh, his behavior it seems to be going more with the flow than not, attacking those with suspicions--blatantly, as is seen by the note on IG and proceeding posts on how it stuck on him. There is a hint of reactionism, instead of investigating through the lines--a tad superficial, but not so that I detect malice. I don't also feel like he's playing it straight and coasting along, agreeing and targeting the 'weak links'. There is that note on how he reacts D2, to the UI/TDS thing.

When i say superficial...I partly mean how the wording is presented. Another note, but still not enough of a tell other than a seeker.

His last post states busy-busy, so I look forward to him later on.
NF: I'd also like to see your account on the UI-Caz//Tir-TDS deal.

It's heartwarming to know I've been missed. I miss that avatar too (it's actually Jean-Paul Belmondo as Michel Poiccard - a car thief - in Breathless). I changed it one day, lost it, and I've had the damnedest time finding that same gif. Honestly, my reason for coming back had less to do with missing the game and more to do with missing the people I played it with. And my lack of activity in the rest of the forums is more due to the fact that I was invited here for Mafia and I haven't actually explored the rest of it. I should actually do that some time.

Regarding the related content, busy-busy is definitely the word for it. Been fighting a lung infection and we also just got a Bengal kitten that's been taking up a lot of our spare time. She's sleeping on my lap now. Freaking adorable. Anyway, I'm glad the day got extended because I'm going to have some actual spare time to go over the UI-Caz/Tir-TDS deal in some detail.

As it stands right now, TDS is likely the best lynch. But I'm not necessarily sold on his scumhood. I'll do some reading tonight and post tomorrow before day end with a vote and explanation.

Explaining absence, and bussing.

Well! Found a darker version of the gif I used. This'll do. 

Padding out his post count to appear more active.

My vote has to go for TDS. He flat out ignores possibly compromising questions designed to get him to explain his reasoning, seems certain that Toony's scheme was going to end in a mislynch, he changed a FoS' to a vote when he got called on it and tried to explain it away as "the wrong color", and he's generally useless. There's a bit more to it than that, but that's the meat of it. If he's somehow not scum, he's a weak link and he's distracting everyone from other targets. He needs to go.

I suppose that's a decent case, but it's not exactly insightful.

Last scum is probably +!!scientist!!+.

+!!scientist!!+: Town lean, since he sees that I am not scum and agrees with me on Toony.

This little tidbit stuck out to me.

Scientist: What do you think now that TDS has flipped scum?

Asking a feeling question.

Blah blah blah lots of words unvote.

I'm gonna have to catch up.

Unvoting.

Holy jeebus, guys... I swear, I leave for a day of work and four pages pop up.

-POST BROKE LIMIT-

[Elephant Parade]

I hate to use it this early, but NativeForeigner: Extend because holy smokes guys.

My gut's telling me either Tiruin or Toony is scum. My gut is also starving. I'll expand on this tomorrow, my day off.

I think this was an elaborate attempt to gain town cred. It's a time where we need an extension, right? So using one would be a good thing to do. Except I already used mine, and he wants to save his for when a scumbuddy is in danger. So he uses it, and then IMMEDIATELY RETRACTS IT. He looks like he wants more discussion time, but he doesn't actually need to use his extension.

Also, he talks about his gut.

Son of a bitch, I didn't see Elephant's extension. I can't redact my extension request, can I?

See above.

Toony: I'd like to hear why you think a no-lynch is at all a good idea.

Asking somebody about their thoughts on the matter. This is barely even scumhunting.

Thank you, Toaster.

Just gotta pad out that post count, huh?

NativeForeigner: You've been absent for a while. What are your reads? Do you think these claims are true?

I honestly don't think Tiruin is lying. I wish I had actual evidence to back this up, but I don't. Just my best idea reading through the mountains of text.

That leads me to believe that it's Toonyman who's lying about his roleclaim. But until Makeinu votes, I'm going to withhold my vote. I'm not going to risk tying up the vote. I'll be keeping an eye out for his vote before day end.

makeinu: Got a few. Nothing relevant to the game beyond being the reason I'm behind.

This is one of his few posts where he actually tries to be insightful. He's wrong, though.

I'll buy not wanting to risk a vote tie. I'll buy the "if Tiruin is true, ToonyMan is false" logic. But what about Tiruin, especially in light of her SK flip, made you so sure that she wasn't lying?

I'd very much like to hear your reasoning, because I was pretty sure at some point in the day that was exactly the case myself.

As I said in the original post, it was more of a gut feeling I got while skimming over the boatloads of posts that were happening.

As far as the recent revelation, I was technically right. Tiruin wasn't scum. But in light of her SK flip, I'll have to reevaluate what's going on.

However, I have my doubts about scientists' claim. Primarily due to the fact that he's still alive.

Trying to get the jailkeeper lynched. This would make perfect sense if he was scum, since he would pretty much know that the jailkeeper was telling the truth.

@ToonyMan: I'm somewhat suspicious of NativeForeigner. Why? Because he wasted my extension. Sure, it might not have been deliberate, but I feel like it may have been a mafia ploy to reduce the number of extensions still available. I'm aware that this isn't the best reason, but I don't really have much else on either NF or SBC.

I'm kind of busy (semester finals) but the last one is Thursday. After that, I will be going over every single post and asking people some questions.

I'll refer you to this post and the one immediately after.

Yeah, I really shouldn't play mafia at 9 PM.

I'm going to be embarrassingly useless this day. Best I can do at the moment is reaffirm that I'm a vanilla townie.

For the time being, I'd like to hear scientists' speculation on why he's still alive today if he's the admitted jailkeeper.

I have the day off tomorrow. I'll reread a few choice pages and see if I can produce something useful.

Asking for speculation and admitting to uselessness.

Good, it got extended. I'll be posting later tonight.

More promises to post later.

-snip-

But what makes the other two scum?

Responding to somebody's question.

makeinu: Currently, I suspect scientist for reasons previously stated. I have another vague suspicion, but I want to see how that pans out before I expand on it.

As far as what makes me not scum, I've been a little to inactive to have anything that's worth pointing out to reinforce my townhood. I had a few good interactions in the earlier days, I accurately assisted with the scum lynch (which, really, is big whoop), and I avoided tying the vote. None of that is particularly convincing or concrete, but that's really all I've got beside the fact that I know I'm town.

I certainly wanted to play effectively, but life got a lot more hectic and the game moved a lot more quickly than I anticipated. I'm giving Mafia as much time as I can right now, I'm splitting my days between several important things right now.

Admitting to inactivity.

E is earlier in the alphabet than N

You're kidding, right?

No comment.

@Makeinu:
Hmm, you make a good point.  NativeForeigner may want a Scientist lynch because he is in fact hiding his role.  And PufferFish/Scientist not making an action Night 1 is pretty suspect.

However, I'm not going to vote Scientist unless NF's explicitly states this.  That way, if we lynch Scientist and he actually is town Jailkeeper, NF is lying and I can shoot him.  But if we keep things implied I can't consider that enough to shoot.

As much as I'd love to say that and have this in the bag, I'm not hiding a power role. Not gonna lie and say otherwise for a scientist lynch because that only hurts town if he's somehow the jailkeeper.

No comment.

NativeForeigner: Extend.

That was an okay time to use an extend, I guess.

No time for actual content right now, but there's my extension as promised.

Gotta keep padding out that post count.

Well, we didn't exactly get a lot out of that extension. SBC hasn't said anything to sway my vote away from him.

SBC: You've got a little bit of time left. Why aren't you voting makeinu if you're sure he's scum?

Also:

If I'm town, do you mind shooting Makeinu?

If you're town? Coming from your perspective, shouldn't that be a more conclusive statement?

Somebody using "if" isn't really a scumtell. More incredibly lazy scumhunting from the scum.

scientist: Who did you block and why?

Looks like my second hunch was correct. Shame I didn't act on it yesterday.

Asking the obvious question, and attempting to reaffirm townhood by having a "hunch".

NativeForeigner: Why are you scum? I suppose there's technically a possibility that it could be scientist, but I really don't think so. What do you think of the recent roleflips?

That's such a hilariously scummy question to ask in LYLO. That, coupled with the fact that Toonyman generally has a good track record for scumhunting leads me to believe that you're our last scumbag. Also, makeinu was trying to egg me into voting for scientist here after I admitted some vague suspicious at his livelihood. So that makes me doubt scientist's scumhood.

Additionally, assuming Toonyman's analysis of the setup here was correct (and I strongly believe it was, as both his and makeinu's analysis of the situation lined up well and described the possible setups quite well), scientist can literally not be scum. Of the four listed in that post, one flipped mafia (makeinu) and the other flipped town (SBC). That leaves only myself and EP as possible scumfolk. I know for a fact I'm town, so that leaves you, Elephant Parade.

Of course, I could be making a mistake by not fully analyzing the situation myself to make sure makeinu and Toony didn't miss anything, but I'm confident in their work considering they matched well even though they were on opposing teams. In short, I'm 97% sure EP is the last of the scum.

As for the roleflips, makeinu was my "maybe, but probably not" suspect. He plays a good game, but for me he was hitting that uncanny valley feeling. I'm just glad Toonyman was true with his aim.

+!!scientist!!+: Read my above analysis on the analysis that was previously done and tell me what you think. As for your current reasoning, I think the vote itself is dead on, but I want you to be confident in your vote.

No comment.

Oh! Just noticed, makeinu flipped JOAT, which was stated as a necessity for Toonyman's analysis to be correct. So now I'm pretty much 100% sure on my vote.

Of course you're sure. You're sure you're voting town, which will let you win.

You asked "why are you scum?" which is a heavily loaded question. That's why it's hilariously scummy. I presented my case as asked scientist for his opinion on it. That's hardly being lazy and simply announcing you scum. I'm not asking you questions because I'm not particularly interested in what you have to say anymore. Granted, I'll answer your questions, but I don't need anymore information on you than I've already got. Scientist might have some questions, though, and he's more than welcome to ask either of us.

I provided an in-depth reasoning for my vote and asked for an analysis to get the discussion going. It's the same process, but mine is more thought out and well-executed than simply asking a loaded question and asking questions about the roleflips.

Go ahead and try to build a case against me, but don't act like I'm not promoting analysis here.

Still trying to make a case out of what was just a differently phrased "you're scum".

You asked "why are you scum?" which is a heavily loaded question. That's why it's hilariously scummy. I presented my case as asked scientist for his opinion on it. That's hardly being lazy and simply announcing you scum. I'm not asking you questions because I'm not particularly interested in what you have to say anymore. Granted, I'll answer your questions, but I don't need anymore information on you than I've already got. Scientist might have some questions, though, and he's more than welcome to ask either of us.

I provided an in-depth reasoning for my vote and asked for an analysis to get the discussion going. It's the same process, but mine is more thought out and well-executed than simply asking a loaded question and asking questions about the roleflips.

Go ahead and try to build a case against me, but don't act like I'm not promoting analysis here.

Asking more questions is always a good idea, since it increases the chance of scum slipping.

There's no such thing as a "loaded statement"...

Like I said, I'm not asking you questions because I don't need anymore information from you. It's more useful for scientist to ask us the questions himself. At least with myself, I know that I get better information by asking the questions myself. All he can expect from us is to try to trick each other into slipping - either falsely or truly. That's why the questions would be better coming from his own mouth/fingertips.

Our questions are going to be completely biased. His won't.

Yeah, scientist's questions might be more useful. Yeah, our questions will be biased.

They're still better than nothing.

Please prod scientist. Elephant Parade too if he doesn't post in the next hour.

Trying to make me look like I'm inactive, when really I've been promoting activity.

I've been trying to create activity. Perhaps you should ask me some questions?

But yeah, it's scientist who really needs to get posting right now.

I told you, any question I ask you is going to be biased. Any question you ask me is going to be biased. Our questions to each other are essentially worthless to scientist.

That was primarily to get scientist prodded so he can ask what he needs to.

You keep trying to squash discussion. I think you were hoping that scientist wouldn't post, and that you would simply get off scot-free as I was lynched.

If you find some time tonight, or if you're still torn by tomorrow, ask us some questions and try to stick around for the answers. That's usually the best way to find out who scum is at this point.

I'll be on around 8:30PM-9:00PM (PST) tomorrow. Hopefully we can come to a solid conclusion before Monday.

No comment.

1.) I extended yesterday because I wanted to get more out of the day. I had some mild doubts about the lynch that turned out to be true, but my extension didn't get much use.

2.) Take a look at my analysis of the analysis of the game mechanics. With the SK flip and the makeinu scum flip and the SBC town flip, that means you have to be telling the truth about being the jailkeeper. Also, it makes a lot more sense why no one died the night you blocked Toony. At first I was skeptical about your survival, but then I realized scum probably targeted Toony figuring he was telling the truth about being a Vig.

3.) I wasn't exactly the most active and a lot of stuff was coming up at once. I used what I had to work with and the little I had indicated he was the best possible lynch at the time. Even if my vote wasn't necessary, I wanted to demonstrate where my thinking was.

No comment.

I'll do the same in a bit. Off the top of my head though, the loaded question at day start is a good start for why EP is scum. I'll be back with more in a bit.

While you're waiting, try to think of some questions. Things you want to know. You can't always rely on others to do your scum hunting for you, even if you're not a suspect.

Hah. This whole business about the loaded question is why you're scum. Throughout the game, you have been jumping on minor-yet-obvious scumtells. You have not been insightful or helpful.

As for me active-lurking, that was mainly due to being quite busy. I wasn't trying to appear active, and I openly admitted to being a bit lurky.

So yeah. NF has been trying to squash discussion throughout this day, and hasn't really been insightful at all.

[NativeForeigner]

Want to see something interesting? Let's remove all those quotes, yeah?

[deflating]
Apologizes for being late and asks a feeling question.
[deflating]
Responds, asks a rhetorical question. He does also ask one legitimate question. Also votes somebody for lazy logic.
[deflating]
Rhetorical.
[deflating]
Rhetorical.
[deflating]
Continues hassling IG about his vote; scum going for the easy lynch?

Also re-asks a generic question that was missed.
[deflating]
Attacks makeinu for what was either a scumslip or bizarre phrasing. Looks like it was the former, but this is still NF jumping on the obvious scumtells, instead of looking for anything more subtle.
[deflating]
Continuing to attack makeinu. He was right, but I think that this may have been an attempt to bus. [Also, why would I bus on something this flimsy when TDS was already falling so fast?]
[deflating]
He backs down. This feels even more like bussing to me now. [You know what bussing means, right?]
[deflating]
No comment.
[deflating]
Asks somebody about opinions again.
[deflating]
More role stuff.
[deflating]
Attacking a lurker. I bet you were expecting to not get a response. [The best way to lure a lurker out is to ask him questions. If you leave him alone, he'll just continue to lurk.]

As for voting TDS, you once again bussed a scumpartner for obvious scumtells. [So what? I'm supposed to ignore obvious scumtells?]
[deflating]
Trying to get TDS to answer a question that was missed. Perhaps TDS didn't want to be bussed?
[deflating]
Hah. Hahaha. Complaining about lazy scumhunting. [Says the guy who was demanding I ask questions while not asking any of his own.]
[deflating]
Asking a somewhat obvious question. Perhaps he figured ToonyMan wouldn't answer since he was trying for a gambit?
[deflating]
For a gambit, of course.
[double deflating]
No comment.
[deflating]
Withdrawing his vote, and promising to do more later.
[deflating]
Commenting, and promising to do more later.
[deflating]
Analyzing someone's strategy.
[deflating]
Responding to something.
[deflating]
Explaining absence, and bussing. [Bussing would require I be on his team.]
[deflating]
Padding out his post count to appear more active. [Definitely not enjoying some OOC chat with an old player.]
[deflating]
I suppose that's a decent case, but it's not exactly insightful.
[deflating]
Asking a feeling question.
[deflating]
Unvoting.

Huh, look at all that hot air. Not exact a lot there, is there? But silly me, my deflations are taking up half the post. Let me reorganize that without my commentary.

Apologizes for being late and asks a feeling question. Responds, asks a rhetorical question. He does also ask one legitimate question. Also votes somebody for lazy logic. Rhetorical. Rhetorical. Continues hassling IG about his vote; scum going for the easy lynch? Also re-asks a generic question that was missed. Attacks makeinu for what was either a scumslip or bizarre phrasing. Looks like it was the former, but this is still NF jumping on the obvious scumtells, instead of looking for anything more subtle. Continuing to attack makeinu. He was right, but I think that this may have been an attempt to bus. He backs down. This feels even more like bussing to me now. No comment. Asks somebody about opinions again. More role stuff. Attacking a lurker. I bet you were expecting to not get a response. As for voting TDS, you once again bussed a scumpartner for obvious scumtells. Trying to get TDS to answer a question that was missed. Perhaps TDS didn't want to be bussed? Hah. Hahaha. Complaining about lazy scumhunting. Asking a somewhat obvious question. Perhaps he figured ToonyMan wouldn't answer since he was trying for a gambit? For a gambit, of course. No comment. Withdrawing his vote, and promising to do more later. Commenting, and promising to do more later. Analyzing someone's strategy. Responding to something. Explaining absence, and bussing. Padding out his post count to appear more active. I suppose that's a decent case, but it's not exactly insightful. Asking a feeling question. Unvoting.

That's a decent paragraph, but is there really any content in there? I'd filter it for content, but I don't want to embarrass Elephant Parade.

I would do the same thing to his second post, but it's just as god-awful. I shouldn't have to dig that hard to simply find where your words start and the quote ends. This is why I like links better. It makes it easier to see what you're trying to say and 90% of your post isn't filled with quotes.

I will however, comment on what I need to regarding his second post.

About me using my extend and retracting it: Why extend twice? That's simply wasting an extension. A day going on for TWO more days with nothing getting done is worse than letting it end early and saving the extension for something useful. If you recall, I used my extension during the SBC lynch to try to get more discussion out of the matter. It didn't work, but I tried.

Asking Toony why he thought a no-lynch was a good idea: I was asking him why he was suggesting a controversial tactic. I don't see how that's barely scumhunting when he was the one suggesting it.

Thanking Toaster: Because we should never be polite to the GM. Clearly I've made a grave mistake.

"Trying to get the jailkeeper lynched": I expressed my skepticism about how scientist was still alive. Jailkeepers don't tend to stay alive very long after they've claimed. I didn't campaign against scientist like you're implying.

Admitting to uselessness: At least I'm honest about it. Making up for it now.

The use of "if": It's not a scumtell on its own, but it's still very odd to see a townie doubting his own townhood. When you're town, typically things regarding your townhood are phrased more concretely.

My hunch: Kind of you to leave out that post earlier where I mentioned I had another unnamed suspect. That was makeinu.

His series of posts asking me to ask questions: Notice how his questions are mysteriously absent? I'll reiterate: I don't plan on asking EP questions because the questions I'll ask will be built around getting him to admit he's scum. Not very useful.

The prod request: I lumped EP in there because I noticed he hadn't posted in close to 36 hours. As I mentioned, it was more intended to get scientist to post.

Me squashing discussion?: Right, I requested a prod in the hopes that scientist wouldn't post... very well thought out EP.

EP's recap: See above regarding "squashing discussion". If that were the case, I'd vote you and be done with it. I presented my reasoning why I voted you, then I posted an extension post with reasons why you're scum. If that's not promoting discussion, then clearly I'm not fit for this game. As for the scumtells, a tell is a tell. Why ignore it even if it's obvious? That's just ignorant play. It'd be different if I based my entire play off that, but can you really say I'm doing the same on you? No. Yes, I'm taking the obvious scumtell and using it, but I'm also using sixteen other posts that show why you're scum. If you're telling me that those are sixteen obvious scumtells, then why are you even trying to argue your way out of this?

[Toaster]

Vote Count:

Elephant Parade: +!!scientist!!+, NativeForeigner
+!!scientist!!+:
NativeForeigner: Elephant Parade

No Lynch:

Not Voting:

Day 4 will last until Monday, 2/10 at 11 PM EST, about three hours from now.

[+!!scientist!!+]

This is a well made scientist on fire, it bristles with spikes of paranoia, on the scientist is an image of a water bear making plaintive gestures in bitmap. The image relates to the confusion and massacre that was "limerick mafia." On the scientist is an image of a lynch vote and Elephant Parade in forum code. Elephant parade is in the fetal position. The image relates to the mortal wounding of Elephant parade by a lynch vote in winter, 2014. On the scientist is an image of a water bear and Native Foreigner, their postures cannot be determined at this time.

Basically, I'm not completely confident, but my best guess is still that Elephant Parade is scum.

I'm going to be so sad if I lose after all this time.

[+!!scientist!!+]

I should mention, I probably won't be able to post again.

[Elephant Parade]

I can assure you that you are making a mistake. NF has tried to avoid discussion, in hopes you would keep your vote on me.

But you aren't going to be able to post, so I suppose this is all for naught. Oh well. Enjoy your loss.

[NativeForeigner]

This is a well made scientist on fire, it bristles with spikes of paranoia, on the scientist is an image of a water bear making plaintive gestures in bitmap. The image relates to the confusion and massacre that was "limerick mafia." On the scientist is an image of a lynch vote and Elephant Parade in forum code. Elephant parade is in the fetal position. The image relates to the mortal wounding of Elephant parade by a lynch vote in winter, 2014. On the scientist is an image of a water bear and Native Foreigner, their postures cannot be determined at this time.

This made me laugh.

Prepare to be happy in about fifteen minutes.

I can assure you that you are making a mistake. NF has tried to avoid discussion, in hopes you would keep your vote on me.

But you aren't going to be able to post, so I suppose this is all for naught. Oh well. Enjoy your loss.

Right, because my recent posts are completely devoid of anything meaningful and worth discussing. Oh wait, those are your posts.

We'll enjoy our win.

[Toaster]

Scientist the jailkeeper so bold
Has now his action fortold
  He said "You're a worm,
  You Pachyderm!"
And the Elephant's blood rand cold.

Now Elephant the Mafia Goon
Said "I'll kill you, buffoon!"
  He whipped out his knife
  And swore his life
On killing that townie soon.

But Native the final townie
Said "Boy, you're history!"
  He threw a trash bin
  A mighty hadoken
And gave Elephant a big ouchie

The remaining town stood over him
Elephant knew his time had grown thin
  The town stomped their feet
  To the Mafia's defeat
And for this the townies will win


And now my great tale is through
I hope that you enjoyed it, too
  Congrats to the Town
  You brought the win down
So you all get to say "Woohoo!"


Elephant Parade has been lynched!  He was a Mafia Goon (Mafia).


Game over!  Town has won!



Scum Chat
Dead Chat


Actions were pretty much as claimed with nothing too exciting, except that scum and SK killed the same target both nights.


Slight mod error report:  Pufferfish, mid-D1, sent in a jailkeep on Zombie Urist, but I didn't write it down and forgot all about it when he never responded to my PMs.  The only actual change that should have been was that the scum team should have gotten a message that their kill failed. (and therefore known there was another killer.)  I doubt it would have made a big difference, though.

Good game, I though.  Thoughts on the setup and/or extension rules?

[NativeForeigner]

Woohoo!

Excellent choice, scientist! Rejoice!

Good try, scumteam! Makeinu plays a good game, but it reached the uncanny point for me a little before the point we settled on lynching SBC.

Thanks for hosting, Toaster! Ran well, a good game to help me get back into things. I'm disappointed with how much I ended up lurking, but I'm glad I was able to pull it together enough to sway scientist towards the truth.

[zombie urist]

Hooray for town! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wCK6INQcHs

New extend rules worked pretty well IMO. I didn't find this setup particularly interesting.

[Persus13]

Also, I died because I hid behind Tiruin N1, and so got seriously annoyed when everyone decided I hid behind ZU as it showed that no one properly read the Hider role info.