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Author Topic: Hearthstone TCG - And the card goes wild! Goodnight Doctor Boom.  (Read 159648 times)

Thexor

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2014, 11:38:39 pm »

Watching Trump was how I learned to play at a decent level. Heed well his best Constructed advice: "When making a basic Constructed deck, choose the best arena cards you can imagine, and go from there."
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Criptfeind

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #151 on: February 18, 2014, 01:01:15 pm »

I think Pint Sized Summoner was a good pick. MCT can be great, but most of the time I find it to just end up being 3/3. The Summoner has two nice things going for her: One, she meshes well with your creature-heavy deck. If she lives past the first turn, she's probably going to be quite helpful. Second, she's a cheap target. People put a LOT of emphasis on killing creatures like her, and I've seen people waste removal cards on her when I had much more dangerous things out. Her advantage, more often than not, is psychological as much as it is mechanical.

I know this is a bit old. But I disagree with this pretty heavily. The MCT is so far above the pint sized summoner in my opinion that I literally can't think of a situation where I would ever take her above him. The thing is one mana rarely actually matters, the times it really matters most is when you will be behind and desperately need a big guy on the board, but in those cases your summoner is already dead because it will die the turn you lose board control.

At best it's a coin every turn, sure, that's great. On average the fact that she is so weak means your opponent probably killed her for cheap or even free.

The MCT on the other hand will always be good. If you are behind and need a body he is better. If you are ahead you can hold him in your hand for value way above what the summoner can ever expect (even if you just take a totem or recruit the MCT is still probably just there done better then the summoner will a vast majority of time.)

As for psychological advantage. Eh, I won't debate that it can be a huge thing in games. But with pint sized summoner only causing fear well on the table and being so easy to remove (unlike the real psychological cards like flame strike and pyroblast) it's pretty much minimal most of the time and it's always inverse to the skill of your opponent. If you are fighting a guy who innervates a swipe or something on turn two to kill a summoner you are probably fighting a guy who you could have won against anyway.

Edit: I realized this post comes off really negative on the summoner. And perhaps that's too harsh. She's not terrible. (Although I might go as far as to say bad.) but the MCT is great.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:08:17 pm by Criptfeind »
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Mephansteras

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #152 on: February 18, 2014, 01:32:21 pm »

Eh, maybe it's just my person experiences talking. But I've only had MCT actually be really useful once when I played him, and useful for opponents maybe two or three times. Most of the time he just ends up being a slightly expensive 3/3. I agree he's got better potential, but he just doesn't work out that well for me.

The Summoner, on the other hand, has helped me get an early lead a few times in some games. Especially in my Charge deck. She's also baited opponents into wasting removal cards on her right before I bring out something much more valuable to me.

This may be due to who I've fought, or maybe just the style of decks I play. Generally speaking, I don't allow my opponent to get enough creatures out to make MCT's ability useful, and when they do things are usually going poorly enough that he doesn't make a significant difference.

*shrug*
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Criptfeind

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #153 on: February 18, 2014, 01:50:28 pm »

But I've only had MCT actually be really useful once when I played him

Do you mean he was killed for free all the other times? Or that he only mind controlled a powerful minion once? Because a 3/3 is still pretty good. And that's sorta the core of why he is better then the 2/2. The MCT has better max value yeah. But he also has better minimum value and better average value.

But. Who knows. A dedicated board control deck where you can say to yourself "I have lost the game of the opponent ever gets more then three minions at one time." Might devalue the MCT and bring up the summoner in value. But that's not likely in the arena and certainly not a druid deck.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 01:53:55 pm by Criptfeind »
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Mephansteras

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2014, 02:36:02 pm »

I mean he either made a significant difference as a 3/3 (opposed to what a 2/2 would do) or actually Mind controlled a useful minion that changed the balance of power on the board. Like I said, I can see how it is in theory a much better card, or at least a safer card, but it just doesn't work out that well for me compared to other cards I've been given as options.

To be fair, though, I don't play Druid decks that often, so I'm less certain how he'd work for one of those. It is true that Druids have more mana gathering abilities, so the Summoner's ability is less impactful in general.
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Siquo

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2014, 07:48:27 am »

Ok, so best deck ever has been invented. Behold, truly a deck worthy of the gods!
This is how I build decks :)

When I say I'm bad I mean that I really don't give a damn about the whole meta and just try things out that seem fun, which often means failure or a spectacular and humiliating win.
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This one thread is mine. MIIIIINE!!! And it will remain a happy, friendly, encouraging place, whether you lot like it or not. 
will rena,eme sique to sique sxds-- siquo if sucessufil
(cant spel siqou a. every speling looks wroing (hate this))

Criptfeind

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baruk

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #158 on: February 20, 2014, 03:43:00 pm »

^Similar to my rogue deck, but I don't have the epics/legendaries yet, or even the SI:7 agent. It's still a lot of fun, put in one of every utility battlecry card like ironbeak owl, swamp ooze and novice engineer, and use the pandas to double up on whatever is needed.

 So I drafted another hunter arena deck, here are the choices I got, my picks bolded:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What I ended up with (arcane shot and hunter's mark are also in there):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In theory beasts should be worth a bit more to a hunter - that might explain some of my picks.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 04:07:11 pm by baruk »
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SHAD0Wdump

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #159 on: February 20, 2014, 04:26:57 pm »

Ok, so best deck ever has been invented. Behold, truly a deck worthy of the gods!
Well looks like someone made the 'alchohol abuse' deck idea I had before I did... Never thought to kick up the shenanigans using rogue though.
 Pretty awesome stuff.

 Admittedly though, by 'alchohol abuse' I planned to use mad bombers and crazed alchemists for more barrels and brews being tossed around.
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Max White

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #160 on: February 20, 2014, 04:58:50 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That actually looks like a very solid deck! There were a few choices that I thought were a little off, until I remembered that you are a hunter and beasts are worth more. Good work, tell me how it works out!

Well looks like someone made the 'alchohol abuse' deck idea I had before I did... Never thought to kick up the shenanigans using rogue though.
 Pretty awesome stuff.
You know if the concept was done by somebody who was a better player than Day[9] it might actually work. Against rush decks you try to weather the storm until turn 6, and then you vanish their entire field, leaving their land too full and they start burning cards. Throw out a solid taunt and they are going to have a bad day. Against control decks you save your draw back cards for the Coldlights and force them to burn their entire deck. The problem with what was constructed was too many elven archers and shit like that...

Edit: My god, flooding their hand, it is so simple! Lorewalker cho + sap! Best case scenario is they try to sap your few minions, giving you the sap back, letting you continue to flood!

marples

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2014, 04:47:32 pm »

I may take a break from this game until the server problems are sorted. Just had a game, where to my perspective, i was waiting for the opponent to play. Lots of Hmm, what to do. Then i get four turns played on me. 30 health gone on what should be turn two.
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baruk

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #162 on: February 24, 2014, 12:19:59 pm »

So I drafted another hunter arena deck, here are the choices I got, my picks bolded:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
What I ended up with (arcane shot and hunter's mark are also in there):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In theory beasts should be worth a bit more to a hunter - that might explain some of my picks.

 Progress report, 5 games played so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 01:57:56 pm by baruk »
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baruk

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #163 on: February 27, 2014, 05:57:07 am »

 My hunter arena run finished on 6W/3L - at least a lot better than the previous effort.
 My notes on the last four games:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I felt pretty bad about setting myself up for a hyper-efficient betrayal in the last game, but with any luck that incident is now burned in my memory - probably the most effective way of memorizing the various removal cards.

palsch

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Re: Hearthstone - Online Warcraft TCG in Open Beta
« Reply #164 on: February 27, 2014, 08:19:56 am »

A few handy tools.

Hearthstone Deck Counter

A really nice simple tool. You load your decklist either from a website or manually. You then right click cards as you draw them and it shows you the remaining cards and probability of drawing each one next (not that useful really, but nice). It's particularly nice for arena decks where you are less likely to know your outs at any given point. Does require you constantly pay attention to what you draw, which is a good thing.

HearthTracker (HT) and HeathstoneTracker (HST).

These are two variations on the same thing; they automatically track your games, recording your win/loss rates and various other statistics. Each has it's own advantages.

- HeathTracker (HT) lets you record the names of each of your decks and will separate stats by deck rather than by class, so if you change from, say, handlock to murlock those stats will be recorded separately. This is especially nice with HSDC as you can save decks by name in that and track their stats with HT. HST only records by class and deck slot so far.

- HST is much more polished, looking nicer, running from the system tray, having an inbuilt updater and being (in my admittedly limited tests) notably more accurate. Notably HT messed up on recording my arena stats and has had a few substantial bugs.

Right now I'm basically using one deck per class, so I've switched entirely to HST. But for testing multiple decks for the same class HT might be a better option, at least till HST gets a suitable feature.

There are a couple other trackers out there but they seem to be uploaders to public tracking sites, which I'm less keen on myself (not to mention they mostly depend on manual updates so the global stat pools tend to be made up for 9+ arena runs, unbeaten ranked decks and the like). Also at least one uses packet sniffing to track the games in progress, which seems like potential ban bait.
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