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[Darvi]

Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart and his daughter/successor.

[Leafsnail]

The Brig was a (very) recurring character in the old series who ran UNIT.  I've heard someone suggest that his actor Nicholas Courtney appeared in more Doctor Who episodes than anyone except Tom Baker, he was pretty big.

He died in 2011 and sadly never appeared in the revival, but he's been referenced a few times (particularly in the 50th anniversary, where his daughter also appeared).

[Rose]

Spoiler: The ending. (click to show/hide)

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How can you be sad about that. Chrismas is jolly.

On a side note, does anyone else think the Christmas trailer intentionally referenced a few famous movies. I mean, in several seconds they have a monster very reminiscent of Alien, the setting of the Thing, and the signature quote of Ghostbusters.

[10ebbor10]

I was right.

[redwallzyl]

that episode was so meta.

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I didn't really like the final "twist".  That felt like quite a nice companion sendoff, and that particular awakening seemed pretty forced and unearned compared to the others.  I still liked the episode due to Nick Frost and the generally pretty cool idea though.

[10ebbor10]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Now, at the end, a Tangerine appears, and, neither person has any wounds from the dreamcrab.

Also, for added fun and symbolism, there's the Orange motive, where, in quite a few movies, an orange appears just before people die. Tangerine is no orange, but ...

[Rose]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I chose it to mean that there really is a third party involved, who orchestrated the whole thing.

[Leafsnail]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think it's probably just a thematic thing to remind us that the idea of Santa was important.  I thought it was a pretty cute Christmas twist - Santa saved them because, while they had a strong idea of what he was supposed to represent, they knew he didn't actually exist in reality.

[Starver]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

...well, given it's the 60th Anniversary episode(s), obviously I couldn't pass up the nigh on a decade of Necro when I tried to find the thread I knew was here and found this[1] (Ok, slightly less than nine years, due to a degree of thread longevity.)

Anyway, I'm doing it.

No outright spoilers for Star Beast (first of the '14th(ish[2]) Doctor Specials). But the following turned out to be extensive, so I'm spoilering my various points just for length reasons:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

* The main (titular) twist was perhaps telegraphed a bit too easily.
* The end-of-episode "whoops!" was explicitly telegraphed uncomfortably close for my liking.
* Though capable, Tate (not-a-spoiler, the trailers are explicit on her character being there) is unfortunately not in my "most favourite companions" list, though I did warm to Donna significantly more post-Runaway Bride. Gonna have to consider what I think about her being the one seen again. (I'd have prefered Martha, but then it'd be a significantly set of different plot devices.)
* Call-backs were plentiful (references to Wilf seemed the most awkward, but I know why they did so), but I think those were demanded by the 'relaunch'.
* The "Marvel-like start ident', and possibly the cursory "as you know" exposition/lukewarm-opening was probably pushed for by the new Disney input (...oh dear... I fear what the Disneyfication will do to this series).
*You can see the Russell T. Davies hand behind it, inclusivity-wise. For those upset with Whittaker's season of 'wokeness', who I have absolutely no sympathy for[3], they'll be squirming even more. Let them. The UNIT scientific advisor (I think last seen by my in The Watch, the 'this is Discworld, honestly' miniseries) does quite well to be (badass-)normal, in that manner. The biggest casting/plotwise surprise had to be telegraphed[4] and even a bit lampshaded, but I suppose not too shabbily given everything.
* Effects-wise, I was... Underwhelmed. Plenty of them, CGI and practical. Notwithstanding 'bulletproof cars' that weren't (I thought that was an error... but soon proven wrong!) there was a rather huge battle set-scene with probably actual physical effects, and doubtless augmented by CGI. But the CGI in the 'main peril to the area' scene was... shoddy? Reminds me of a mix of Ninth Doctor-era, Eight's 'TV Movie' escapade and the notorious 'filler' (low-budget) episode from Ten's time. HD effects, certainly, but very much in the form of CGI compositing from as far back as the eighties. Actually, there were probably many matte-renderings that weren't so bad (I doubt that they had a handy skylight like that, let alone two of them), but the piece d'resistance may have simultaneously sucked up far too much of the FX budget and not enough...  IMO. Maybe a future rewatch will change my mind on this. (More generously or less so..?)
* The peril of the rather impractical-sounding technology was, anyway, far more ridiculous to me (submerged to some extent in the whole Whoniverse... Good, bad and 'giant green maggots') than even the basic threat(s) that arrived with it. I can think of about five different methods to set up an area-wide threat that would easily slot into the rest of the conceit (assuming the rest was irrevocable as a script point), and could have been done with... 'middle of the road' effects, shall I say??? (Reversible ones!)

...so, a few complaints, perhaps. But it is nice to see the Whoniverse continuing (House Of Mouse elements notwithstanding). And they could definitely have done worse than use Ten for this interlude, even not yet knowing the full arc-plot reasons that are yet to be revealed as to why. (I think it is still an outstanding issue about why Twelve[5] looks like two prior characters (in Pompei and via Torchwood), something that RTD and Moffat had apparently agreed a plausible backstory for. And of course Four may yet be canonically linked to the elderly Curator...)

I don't think it'll matter much, in the long run. The upcoming tenure of Fifteen is of course the one we're going to hang our future (if timey-wimey) hopes on. Whether the 60th episodes go classic or go flat.

But that's just my thoughts.



[1] Do you know what happens when you search the board for "Doctor Who"? Loads of medical references and general nominative/interogative pronoun appearances.

[2] By canonical count/description, that is.

[3] The 'those', I mean. I enjoyed the diversity, though could have survived without also.

[4] In generally checking out "what things people had been in", I suspect that if I'd actually watched a certain Netflix series (raved about by some forumites) then I'd have been in on it from the start.

[5] You know, it shocked me to realise that nine years ago we we were discussing Twelve's early tenure. We didn't really have so many series/seasons/runs of him, plus Thirteen's ones, in my mind. Even considering "the only episodes this year being Chrstmas/New Year episodes" level of infrequency of 'new stuff' from the rather sporadic Whovian conveyorbelt. Jodie's six(?) years of tenure were far too sparse, IMO.

[TD1]

Ehhh, the episode was alright. I had high hopes which this did not meet - but, perhaps the future episodes will.

I will note in terms of identity politics, it felt rather... hamfisted?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The whole "binary binary binary binary.... non-binary!" thing made me snort at the ridiculousness, which I doubt was the intent.

Beyond that, I can see how gender inclusion could have been a theme for this episode. The Doctor, after all, just stopped being a woman. This then ties into the introduction of a transgender(?) person. Also The Meep being neither a he nor she, merely a 'The.' So on.

I'm willing to see whether future episodes explore other themes before labeling this reboot an SJW propaganda piece. Which, to clarify, is manageable in an episode - but making gender politics your entire plot has well-documented issues.

[Folly]

Yeah, the pandering in this latest episode was entirely hamfisted. Representation is important, but it's also important that it be handled in a way that does not upend the main story, and these writers just have not figured out how to do that.

I've heard that the rest of this season is supposed to be more serious/intense. Here's hoping.

[Starver]

Well, if you had seen what RTD did with Davros in the 'skit' for Children In Need charity night. He made him...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

...not a wheelchair user. Because you shouldn't be associating deformities and invalidism with evil!

(While I think that might be a contentious reasoning, as the depiction is probably slightly before Genesis Of..., etc, if you try to slot it into canon, there's 'plot time' enough for him to be hit by a Thal bombardment and confined to his Mk3 Chair in time for Tom Baker's materialisation. Well... The whole universe has been rebooted at least twice and there have been interactions also with his childhood self, so... Timey-wimey.  And it sounds like we'll have unchaired, Dalek-era Davros in upcoming actual episodes, perhaps without the compassionate/victim-of-circumstance elements that past stories have perhaps tried to push into his timeline.

And l'm open to a bit of that pandering. The problems with the episode weren't anything to do with that. Whatever the hammy elements, these particular fists are relatively ham-free, IMO.

(If you want to see something that might annoy some Whovians looking for a good new story see this.)

Spoiler: On TD1's spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Binary, [etc]" was just a useful hook. Back in (Stolen Earth+)Journey's End there was dialogue, doubtless not written with this in mind but it... works, as a thematic reprise. I'm not saying they couldn't have avoided it, but I can't see any good reason not to if it fit the rest of the revelation.

I probably missed bigger clues about Rose, by the time the "boys on bikes" called her... "Jason", was it? (One of the boys' mothers then being refered to as "Joyce", apparently... Which confused me far more, until I rewound and disentangled the very nearly "One Steve Limit" inadvertent script infraction.) Then I found the rather... underplayed and tangential... discussion about how both mother and grandmother were (sort of) happy to have brought up such a (grand)daughter to be a lot less hamfisted than it might have been. It made it a non-issue. Just as Shirley Bingham's disability was lampshaded as not a professional issue. (Though it did save her from being there for the initial 'assimilation'. Just as Rose ended up as more capable of dealing with the metacrisis issues. Hand-wavey Deus Ex Somethingorother, but then that's what most Who does, most of the time...)

I think "The Meep" isn't non-binaryness, actually. Under the guise of the original backstory, being the sole survivor. Given the reveal, The Meep (or Beep), the ruler. Just like "The Mandarin", "The Mekon", "The Joker", etc.

Yes, there were the transgender elements, but more generally there was what you think you are, what you want others to think you are, how you deal with all that (and why, and how, and to what end) and how others do (ditto). Well beyond transgenderism. Donna was unhappy/unfulfilled whilst not being her DoctorDonna self, without knowing why. Shirley seemed happy enough being all that she can. A diverse (notably not overwhelmingly male, pale and stale) UNIT unit that (possessions excepted, except when all are possessed) work well together. The Warths consider themselves... Well, as Wrarths. (The early clue that they're not even "all conquering", but the later revelation of a lifelong dedication to duty.)

In my experience, those who even use "SJW" to identify 'otherness' already have issues, without us trying to pander to them, and I'm not sure how many people would even self-identify by that term. Obviously you're just referencing the former type, of course, and thus so do 'otherise' the 'otheringers' and no more.

[Loud Whispers]

idk what the doctor who writers are even doing anymore lol