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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 366712 times)

Madman198237

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3060 on: October 21, 2020, 05:41:01 pm »

-snip-

Well, they tried to do that already, with Orion, which was scrapped after a nuclear treaty, something about deploying multiple nuclear bombs throughout a whole vertical column of the atmosphere being undesirable or something. Besides I'm not sure that a nuclear fusion reactor is similar enough to a fission reactor in terms of weight, power output, power characteristics, fuel usage, required operating conditions, etc. that you can just make a fission reactor engine and then swap out a fusion reactor with some minimal adjustments and have the thing work.

Fission reactor powered rocket is not the same as an Orion drive WHATSOEVER, for starters. A nuclear-powered drive of some form (be it nuclear thermal or just electric propulsion powered by nuclear means) is a pretty sweet improvement to the typical options available and has none of the downsides of solar sails. I also did not mean literally using the same ships but instead experimenting with the forms of propulsion available to a nuclear reactor system...and also just making interplanetary travel faster and easier.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3061 on: October 21, 2020, 05:57:33 pm »

If you end up (knowingly or otherwise) visiting an inhabitted exoplanet, be aware that your vehicle may not be strictly allowed, or at all welcome, by the local ordinances upon your arrival...

That's assuming they can detect or do anything about us. A pre-industrial civilization might not, even with giant clouds of radioactive material trailing behind such a craft. In the same way supposed UFOs don't give a fuck about our aerospace restrictions or guidelines; even if we could conclusively prove aliens are violating our aerospace, the gap in technology supposed is such that we can't do shit except politely ask them to not enter high traffic areas without prior warning.
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3062 on: October 21, 2020, 06:08:23 pm »

fission powered ion thruster is probably the most useful, if you can produce a compact (and most importantly!), lightweight fission reactor to couple it with. (The thrust provided by an ion engine is very small-- Less than 1 newton, IIRC. However, the propellant consumption is very small, compared to the delta V it produces, especially over the lifetime of the engine, since it can do continuous fire, potentially for years at a time.)


Say for instance, if you have well calculated rendezvous of a large transport of some kind (Hello early Bungee title, I am borrowing the Marathon for this example), this heavy vehicle could use a combination of deployable solar sails and ion thrusters to keep its velocity high, then enter and leave high orbits of target bodies in the solar system after getting local reaction-mass replenished (or if using only the ion thruster/sails to do the orbital maneuvers, use a long transfer trajectory.)  It would have to operate on a *VERY* strict time-table to keep favorable rendezvous going, but it could be used to ferry large amounts of material/people around the solar system.  It is important to note that this vehicle does not EVER slow down. Once it gets up to speed, its engines are ALWAYS hot.  The most it does is enter a capture trajectory for a high orbit capture, with controlled burns to accomplish this.  It would then burn its engines and selectively deploy and retract its solar sails to do oberth like operations to exit orbit, and breakaway, based on its timetable.  Its high velocity means it has to assume a high orbit.


Remember, a heavy reactor in space is always bad.  It means you either can transport less cargo, or will be expending more energy for a gain in delta-V for the energy expended, in a very unpleasant curve with ever increasing diminishing returns, as the reactor gets heavier.  Lighter reactors will always be preferred, even with a super-transport like the Marathon.

If being used inside a star system like this, expelling the waste out the tailpipe is not advisable; the waste products could be vastly more useful in space as the power cell inside RTGs for deployed robots and probes.  The reactor's waste should be transferred to local port authorities for that use.


@Eric Blank, RE: Port authority

Remember, aliens are likely to be either waaaaaaaaaaaay more advanced than us, or waaaaaaaaay less advanced than us.  Only seeing the "way less advanced" point of view is dangerous.  You dont want to show up in orbit of Aiur with a nuke smoldering rustbucket, and have to fart out a bunch of radioactive polonium.  The protoss will take exception, and it wont end well for you. :P

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bloop_bleep

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3063 on: October 21, 2020, 07:59:05 pm »

I might have missed a discussion on this, but what was the deal with that supposed UFO an Air Force pilot supposedly spotted?
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3064 on: October 21, 2020, 08:01:46 pm »

Probably just nations getting eyes on each others' spy planes. Those you can't even let the world know that they exist, or they'll have some idea of what to look for. And weird shapes are an advantage since they can throw off things looking for the signature of a plane, ala the B2.

Edit: NASA stating that they've got a major discovery about the moon in the works collected by one of the infrared telescopes, speculation is towards either subsurface ice water or evidence of tectonic activity.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 08:12:56 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Eric Blank

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3065 on: October 21, 2020, 08:33:28 pm »

Tectonic activity angle sounds neat. What's goin on up in that moon?
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

bloop_bleep

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3066 on: October 21, 2020, 08:40:15 pm »

Tectonic activity angle sounds neat. What's goin on up in that moon?

Clearly subsurface hives of magma men. Explains the UFOs.

They probably need to make an Earth expedition every 100 years or so to obtain oxygen for their metalsmithing workshops.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 08:43:16 pm by bloop_bleep »
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RedKing

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3067 on: October 21, 2020, 08:53:13 pm »

NASA: Not only was the moon landing a hoax, the Moon itself is a hoax.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3068 on: October 21, 2020, 09:25:24 pm »

Probably just nations getting eyes on each others' spy planes. Those you can't even let the world know that they exist, or they'll have some idea of what to look for. And weird shapes are an advantage since they can throw off things looking for the signature of a plane, ala the B2.
Even if it's a known shape, it can be misinterpreted.

There was this photo I recall of a 'UFO' being refuelled by a USAF tanker plane. It was quite clearly a not-at-that-time-unknown F117a (at an angle similar to this photo, as I recall, except from underneath - an angle the tanker aircraft was clearly heading), but someone had decided to interpret it as a "flying saucer" by misinterpretting nose for one side, wing for the other, the other wing as the central bulge. It's not even as unconventional as the B2 (prime 'saucer' material, especially head on).

And videos taken by pilots (in planes travelling at speed, and not necessarily constant velocity - including direction) of othervl aircraft are subject to so much closing/departing changes even to steadily moving 'bogies' that all the pan/tilt/dolly/truck camera motion effects (which the remote viewer can't feel or appreciate the effects of) can utterly disguise the absolute motion, and heading, of the unknown airframe trying to being focussed (or, usually, 'blurried') upon.  But if you "want to believe" (or want others to, by redubbing the pilot commentaries accordingly) it's far too easy.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3069 on: October 22, 2020, 01:57:12 am »

You know I recall one aliens mystery thing mentioning Apollo astronauts supposedly seeing "camp fire" like lights and smoke coming off the moon and saying "oh yeh they're covering it up because it's clearly aliens". I wonder now, if that's what NASA's findings will be about, and if there's actually volcanic activity (could cause glowing lights on the surface and plumes of gas and ash ejecta that resemble smoke) somewhere on the surface their infrared systems picked up.

I remember that was the first thing that came to mind when we were watching that show. "Oh that sounds like volcanic activity, not aliens, you dipshits"
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I make Spellcrafts!
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3070 on: October 22, 2020, 02:12:02 am »

or evidence of tectonic activity.
Who's speculating that? The Flat Earth Society? How would that even work?
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wierd

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3071 on: October 22, 2020, 02:18:46 am »

Pieplate earth exerts uneven gravitation against pieplate moon, causing it to vibrate and get hot!
(bonus if they use math.)
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RedKing

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3072 on: October 22, 2020, 02:47:38 am »

Pieplate earth exerts uneven gravitation against pieplate moon, causing it to vibrate and get hot!
(bonus if they use math.)

Little-known fact, most Flat Earthers believe that the Moon and other planets are indeed round, it's only Earth that is flat.
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Cthulhu

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3073 on: October 22, 2020, 10:53:58 am »

Probably just nations getting eyes on each others' spy planes. Those you can't even let the world know that they exist, or they'll have some idea of what to look for. And weird shapes are an advantage since they can throw off things looking for the signature of a plane, ala the B2.
Even if it's a known shape, it can be misinterpreted.

There was this photo I recall of a 'UFO' being refuelled by a USAF tanker plane. It was quite clearly a not-at-that-time-unknown F117a (at an angle similar to this photo, as I recall, except from underneath - an angle the tanker aircraft was clearly heading), but someone had decided to interpret it as a "flying saucer" by misinterpretting nose for one side, wing for the other, the other wing as the central bulge. It's not even as unconventional as the B2 (prime 'saucer' material, especially head on).

And videos taken by pilots (in planes travelling at speed, and not necessarily constant velocity - including direction) of othervl aircraft are subject to so much closing/departing changes even to steadily moving 'bogies' that all the pan/tilt/dolly/truck camera motion effects (which the remote viewer can't feel or appreciate the effects of) can utterly disguise the absolute motion, and heading, of the unknown airframe trying to being focussed (or, usually, 'blurried') upon.  But if you "want to believe" (or want others to, by redubbing the pilot commentaries accordingly) it's far too easy.

This is what I always tell people, a picture of a flying object against the backdrop of the sky has exactly zero frame of reference for size, distance, speed, heading, really any property that could help you figure out what it is.

If you don't know what shape an object is or which way it's going, you can't make any inferences about the way it's flying.  A lot of UFO shit like hard 90 degree pivots, stopping in mid-air, etc. could easily be normal flying behaviors, you just can't tell what it's doing.

There was an experiment once where they had somebody sit in a pitch-black room with a laser pointer on the wall, and they had to report what the laser point did.  They reported it moving around the room, but it was bolted to the wall.  With no frame of reference, the brain started reading saccades and small head movements as the laser itself moving.
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McTraveller

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #3074 on: October 22, 2020, 01:45:45 pm »

You know I recall one aliens mystery thing mentioning Apollo astronauts supposedly seeing "camp fire" like lights and smoke coming off the moon and saying "oh yeh they're covering it up because it's clearly aliens". I wonder now, if that's what NASA's findings will be about, and if there's actually volcanic activity (could cause glowing lights on the surface and plumes of gas and ash ejecta that resemble smoke) somewhere on the surface their infrared systems picked up.

I remember that was the first thing that came to mind when we were watching that show. "Oh that sounds like volcanic activity, not aliens, you dipshits"

Why wouldn't it be meteor(ite) impacts? That seems even more plausible and probable to me. Smoke/Debris in low gravity? Check. Heat? Check.

I guess that doesn't sound as interesting though.
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