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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 366926 times)

Egan_BW

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #960 on: July 21, 2015, 12:15:14 am »

Well, the "mostly empty" portion only works out if you're not considering infinite distance. If you draw a straight line, you're bound to hit something; it just might be... far, is all.
And it'll be something you don't care about long after you're dead.
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MrWiggles

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #961 on: July 21, 2015, 12:25:15 am »

The EM Drive crowd is starting to really remind me of Cold Fusion nuts.
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nogoodnames

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #962 on: July 21, 2015, 01:08:24 am »

The EM Drive crowd is starting to really remind me of Cold Fusion nuts.

Eh, at least it has some experimental backing from reputable sources. IIRC all cold fusion had going for it were some unconfirmed claims of fusion products from one guy in a non peer reviewed study. Still, all the media attention and wild speculation doesn't help.

Recently, while browsing youtube, I happened to stumble upon this neat little space channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/TMRO
They do a weekly show with recent space news and usually an interview or debate of some kind, as well as smaller single-topic videos. Most of what I've seen has been pretty interesting and informative. I thought some of you might be interested in it.
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Bumber

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #963 on: July 21, 2015, 02:36:54 am »

Well, the "mostly empty" portion only works out if you're not considering infinite distance. If you draw a straight line, you're bound to hit something; it just might be... far, is all.
And it'll be something you don't care about long after you're dead.
It'll probably already be dead, too. Assuming it was alive in the first place, that is.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #964 on: July 21, 2015, 02:41:48 am »

I'm just desperate for a definitive experiment on it.
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #965 on: July 21, 2015, 04:33:21 am »

You assume that the massive amount of energy propelled in front of you ever stops. It doesn't. It's just a matter of what ends up being nuked; if you're lucky, you can aim it right at a black hole and never worry about it. If you're unlucky, you just wiped out an entire planet.
Nobody's done a profile of what such an energy blast would look like, at great distance, and compared it to what we've seen of Gamma Ray Bursts, have they?

(Let's say that many distant galaxies have civilisations with such drive systems.  They've all, independently, realised the dangers of their methods if they don't 'aim off', away from any vulnerable world in their own galaxy, so each segment of any flight is aimed to head for 'dark sky' with nothing but extragalactic bodies (perhaps not even fellow galactic local cluster members), and even then ideally at somewhere that only the Hubble Deep Field would spot anything in.  Eventually, however, the dissipated and extremely acute conical section intersects somewhere.  Like us.   ...or else it has been used as an actual weapon, against some 'nearby' world, and we (again) just happen to be on the same ultimate trajectory, only mildly occulted by the intented target, but still saved from the same fate through sheer distance.)

However, probably not.  But its implementation might be a good basis for a story (short or otherwise).  A sudden cessation of GRBs could indicate that distant civilisations are now not aiming at us (because they now have us mapped, and are avoiding even subjecting us to the extremely low-level side-effects).  Although, theoretically, their 'supralightspeed' GRB-creating drives would let them get here (intentionally aiming 'out', into further empty sky, as much as they are able) before their purely light-speed GRBs stop (or even start?) arriving.  Depending on operational limits like cool-down times and exactly how much past lightspeed they can travel.
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Reelya

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #966 on: July 21, 2015, 04:50:01 am »

We have to take into account the options the aliens will have. If FTL drives are possible, they might require such a large technological and energy investment that they no longer look viable. Possibly, such aliens would already have life-extension technology and autonomous AIs, and have been around so long that regular sub-light travel doesn't seem like so much of a big deal. A few centuries is nothing against a backdrop of billions of years, and you end up in the same place either way, so they might not think there's any specific rush to get there, that way of looking at things might be specific to races at our stage of development, and with our mortal lifespans.

Also, there might be economic constraits. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's going to get done (except as a proof of concept). There will always be competing uses for energy, and perhaps the aliens who have alcubierre drives have much better uses for all that energy than speeding up interstellar flight. Fast travel has to economically compete with all other purposes for the energy used.

sneakey pete

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #967 on: July 21, 2015, 05:09:49 am »

Official cause of SpaceX accident: not enough struts.

A strut holding a helium canister failed, it dumped extra helium into the 2nd stage tank, causing the overpressure event and subsequent disintegration of 2nd stage. They also mentioned changing suppliers since the strut was supposed to be rated for 5x the load it was under.
http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/07/20/support-strut-probable-cause-of-falcon-9-failure/

I'd be more worried that the support was under 5x the load it was supposed to be.
But they've probably already got hundreds of engineers to think about that.
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Reelya

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #968 on: July 21, 2015, 06:13:47 am »

The EM Drive crowd is starting to really remind me of Cold Fusion nuts.

Eh, at least it has some experimental backing from reputable sources. IIRC all cold fusion had going for it were some unconfirmed claims of fusion products from one guy in a non peer reviewed study. Still, all the media attention and wild speculation doesn't help.

That's not really a fair assessment regardless of what you think of cold fusion. In fact, many labs in the early 1990s reported corroborating results. About 100 labs had claimed to corroborate F&P's reaction according to a New Scientist article I read back in the mid 90s. This includes researchers in the US Navy's labs, and peer reviewed studies:
http://www.wired.com/2009/03/navy-scientists/
And this article has a bunch of quotes from people who are actually reputable scientists who supported it:
http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/6.11/coldfusion_pr.html

I think the number of both government and university labs that have claimed to have replicated cold fusion is much more convincing than the space drive.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 06:32:15 am by Reelya »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #969 on: July 21, 2015, 06:41:36 am »

Official cause of SpaceX accident: not enough struts.

A strut holding a helium canister failed, it dumped extra helium into the 2nd stage tank, causing the overpressure event and subsequent disintegration of 2nd stage. They also mentioned changing suppliers since the strut was supposed to be rated for 5x the load it was under.
http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/07/20/support-strut-probable-cause-of-falcon-9-failure/

I'd be more worried that the support was under 5x the load it was supposed to be.
But they've probably already got hundreds of engineers to think about that.

Uhm no, read again.

The strut was rated for 5 times the strength it failed under. As in, it was supposed to carry loads 5 times stronger.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #970 on: July 21, 2015, 06:46:24 am »

I believe the implication is considering the scenario the strut may, in fact, somehow ended up under quintuple the load that it was supposed to be carrying and failed legit. That would constitute a far more serious design problem.

Only Pump A Strut can save us now.
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Graknorke

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #971 on: July 21, 2015, 07:37:21 am »

Quote
“The strut that we believe failed was designed in material certified to handle 10,000 pounds of force, but actually failed at 2,000 pounds force, which is a five-fold difference,” Musk said in a conference call with reporters.
Quote
“We did some material analysis … and found there were problems with the grain structure of the steel,” Musk said. “It hadn’t been formed correctly, so we think that was the problem — a bad bolt that snuck through, that looked good, but wasn’t actually good in the inside.”
Nope, the rating was just wrong due to problems in the metal.
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LordBaal

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #972 on: July 21, 2015, 08:07:58 am »

Also let's remind what mankind did the second we knew how to split an atom. We didn't use it to power every place of the planet cheaply, the main purpose was to make it a weapon. Let's ditch the problems with the Alcuberre drive possibly blowing up your destination (and possibly your start place), and go with the "safe route" approach.

How long before some fucked up idiot starts to use it as a weapon in the name of it's god/ideology/country/planet/whatever-stupid-reason? It's the primary force behind the plot of the Killing Star, an excellent novel I personally dislike because it makes look super easy to accelerate something towards the speed of light and aiming from another stellar system and hit like it was nothing. Doing that is lot more hard than depicted in the novel, no matter the level of technologies you have. Also because humans are in the receiving end of surprise butt sex at solar system level, and I'm a human supremacist.
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Bumber

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #973 on: July 21, 2015, 04:34:51 pm »

I believe the implication is considering the scenario the strut may, in fact, somehow ended up under quintuple the load that it was supposed to be carrying and failed legit. That would constitute a far more serious design problem.
We'd need a source confirming that. All we know is it failed at 2000 lbs, which I guess they calculated via their instruments.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2015, 04:39:43 pm by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

i2amroy

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #974 on: July 21, 2015, 10:56:57 pm »

Well, the "mostly empty" portion only works out if you're not considering infinite distance. If you draw a straight line, you're bound to hit something; it just might be... far, is all.
Only if the big rip or big freeze aren't true. Since space is expanding and that rate is also expanding, if the thing that you would hit is far enough away that by the time you get there space will be expanding faster than the speed of light you would never hit anything at all, since for every bit forward the blast moved it would have two bits of space created between it and it's eventual impact.
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