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Author Topic: Transhumanism Discussion Thread  (Read 54763 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« on: November 04, 2013, 10:38:39 am »


So, transhumanism. H+. Those crazy internet nerds who want to be robots. After our recent conversation on neodymium implants, I realized we've never really had a thread on this before.


The aforementioned neodymium implants consist of a coated neodymium magnet implanted in the finger. Being a powerful but small magnet, this allows the implanted individual to feel magnetic fields. This has proven useful from being able to determine if a wire is live or dead by moving your finger near it, to doing otherwise impossible magic tricks. Here's a decent article/mini-documentary on the subject. Being that no doctor will perform this kind of ramshackle elective surgery, and by now are probably wondering why people have started asking them to put magnets inside their fingers for no clear reason, the only alternative is through the body modding community. And the primary problem with that is that they aren't allowed to use anesthetic.

The reason that this is important is because it represents an early realization of transhumanist ideas that can be reached by normal people. This sort of thing is transhumanism verbatim. Your senses are being enhanced in a way that you otherwise would not experience (there is evidence to suggest a vestigial magnetoception in humans, but that's not the point). It also points out the need for a recognition of morphological freedom if transhumanism is ever going to be a reality. Bootleg surgery might be alright for now, but there are obvious limits.

Moving on, another matter of interest is radical life extension. Pew did an interesting piece on this lately, as well as the responses of the general public and leaders of major religions. I personally find it very interesting how many people say they'd reject being able to live to at least 120.

Finally, I'll end this opening post with one of the most amazing leaps in the research of a brain-machine interface that I have ever encountered. The magnum opus of Professor of Cybernetics Kevin Warwick, Project Cyborg. I think it is one of the better cases for mad science out there, since shoving electrodes into your nervous system to see what happens is crazy, and following it up when it works by using the same technology to connect to your wife's nervous system is also crazy, which does nothing to change the fact that this experiment was radically successful. Here's the paper in full (I don't know if you all will be able to access this due to me being on a university network, but it says it is free). Here's a TED talk by him if you find all this interesting.

Finally, this is what this thread is not about:

Singularitarianism: This is the big one, and what I want to get out of the way immediately. Transhumanism and singularitarianism are often conflated, but they are neither the same thing nor are they necessarily linked. One can (as I do) accept transhumanism without accepting singularitarianism, and one can accept singularitarianism without accepting transhumanism (the "AI gods to rule over us" position). This is perhaps the single most controversial part of the futurist ethos that transhumanism is a part of, and I want to make it clear now that I don't want this thread to devolve into a circlejerk between singularitarians and non-singularitarians. This is not to say that I am forbidding the discussion of singularitarianism wholesale, but we should only discuss it in the context of its relationship to transhumanism, be it the technological or societal version of the singularity.

Artificial Intelligence: Not far from singularitarianism in topic, AI development is a separate field from transhumanism.

General Scientific Advancement: We already have a science thread. As above, this is about transhumanism specifically, and discussed scientific advancements should be related to transhumanism in some way.

The end of capitalism and/or the rise of automation: Same as before. While these things may well coincide with transhumanism in timeframe, they are not transhumanism.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 10:41:11 am by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Nilocy

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 11:20:45 am »

Does wearing glasses make me a cyborg?
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notquitethere

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 11:57:08 am »

I was tempted to put magnets in my fingertips but I don't think I'd dig the debilitating pain. I'd definitely like to live as long as possible and I wonder if the low caloric intake approach actually pays off. Kevin Warwick is an interesting guy, some of my friends have odd stories about him (I studied at Reading where Warwick is based), but I don't think my vague second hand recollections are worth passing on.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 12:04:00 pm »

i can be a cyborg sure but do they make cute cyborg chassis(es?)

human bodies are silly, but sorta work. sorta.
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scrdest

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 12:06:14 pm »

Hmm. The logo looks a bit too much like LG's, now that I think of that.

I'm totally a transhumanist, although I'm much less excited about the 'be cyborgs' angle and more about patching out the bugs in how we are right now.

In fact, I will actively be working on that.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2013, 12:11:34 pm »

I will quite happily accept any augmetation and improvements into my being as it feasable, should the possibility arise. The idea of becoming more than what I am really appeals to me. To live forever with skills and talents I could only dream of sounds like my idea of bliss.

notquitethere

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2013, 12:13:25 pm »

In fact, I will actively be working on that.
In what way, scrdest ?
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scrdest

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2013, 12:19:13 pm »

In fact, I will actively be working on that.
In what way, scrdest ?

I'm studying Biotech for that purpose and I'm doing some reading on my own on the subject of longevity and aging. As of right now, Caleb Finch.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2013, 12:21:23 pm »

are you going to make us all into jellyfish scr

or just figure out how to keep the brains fresh in a roboshell
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scrdest

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2013, 12:22:01 pm »

are you going to make us all into jellyfish scr

u jelly?
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2013, 12:23:31 pm »

* LordSlowpoke wobbles and slaps things with poison tentacles
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notquitethere

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 12:26:52 pm »

I'm studying Biotech for that purpose and I'm doing some reading on my own on the subject of longevity and aging. As of right now, Caleb Finch.
Oh that's cool. Is there any wisdom that you've gleaned thus far?
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PyroDesu

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2013, 12:27:30 pm »

I'm somewhat tempted by the neodymium implants as well, but for 2 things: 1, you can't have anesthesia. 2, I don't know of anyone who would be willing to consider doing it.

As for transhumanism itself, my thoughts boil down to this: The human body is, for the most part, a very complicated support system for the brain. Changing an aspect of it, making it more efficient, or changing what a person can experience (voluntarily, of course), is something I think would be worthwhile. And this extends beyond cybenetics, like with genetic modification (though cybernetics is usually superior, in my opinion).

Patching bugs (there's a lot of them) is certainly one of the first aims, but improvements will likely be parallel to such.

I'm studying Biotech for that purpose and I'm doing some reading on my own on the subject of longevity and aging. As of right now, Caleb Finch.

Cool.
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scrdest

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2013, 12:36:38 pm »

I'm studying Biotech for that purpose and I'm doing some reading on my own on the subject of longevity and aging. As of right now, Caleb Finch.
Oh that's cool. Is there any wisdom that you've gleaned thus far?

From the former, not much yet, first year, although my Genetics class is fascinating (for example, fruit flies cells' sex works on the 'screw this, they'll figure this out themselves' basis, so you can have some female cells in a male fly and vice verse, or the single (human/mouse) gene that decides whether the babby formed is male (although it depends on other stuff to make it a fertile male), but you can transplant the gene to the X chromosome and have a human XX-chromosomed male).

From the latter, a bit of a heavy read, but the general argument is that aging is caused predominantly by accumulated genetic damage due to inflammations over the course of life of a creature, so it's a side-effect of having an immune system, though on the other hand viral infections ALSO contribute to the damage (some viruses integrate their genotype into your DNA rather than just hacking the cell to produce viruses until it bursts).
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Telgin

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Re: Transhumanism Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 12:37:24 pm »

I support Transhumanism for the most part, but I support improving humans in more ways than just cybernetics.  Genetic engineering seems to me like it should be preferred over it wherever possible, for a few reasons.

Anyway, for the most part I support using cybernetics to remove human limitations and other "bugs" as people have mentioned.  I'd love to no longer have to sleep for example, but there are more obvious things like improving lifespans that I doubt too many would object to.  The problem of course comes from where people draw the line at what constitutes a "bug" in human design.  Is sleep a bug?  Can it even be removed with the way our brains function?  Who knows yet?

Using cybernetics or genetic engineering to improve on humans and grant them unnatural abilities is a little different, and while I think it's something that we as a species should embrace without fear, I believe that there is a kernel of truth to many cyberpunk and transhumanist works that depict humans falling into classes of haves and have nots that only gets worse due to the introduction of human enhancement.  If we could somehow magically eliminate scarcity and provide such enhancement to everyone worldwide, that still wouldn't be enough due to things like religious or personal beliefs causing some people to deny the enhancements.  What do you do then?
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