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Author Topic: More of less Leather  (Read 7651 times)

Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2013, 02:17:49 pm »

How is it hurting standardized creatures / materials? It is simply taking the next evolutionary step.

Adding the 10 non-existent creatures to the game will not have an affect on FPS.  If FPS is an issue, you need to improve your dwarfs pathfinding by defining traffic areas or get rid of items that you have no use for.

You may not mind "dog leather" showing up in the list, but I hope you understand that it doesn't exist in the MW mod.  You will never get "dog leather". It is just cluttering the lists and the game thinks it could exist, but no reaction will actually produce it and it is just taking up memory.

I don't think I understand what you are talking about in the "animal:animal:animal" paragraph. If you are referring to CREATURE:ANIMAL then the name is already ::: making it blank, and thereby, standardizing the material of any creature or reaction that references CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL:XXXXX. If you are referring to the name of each and every creature, then that won't work because then creatures won't have names. This paragraph is also contradicting the previous statement of you not minding "animal" leather when you say that "... tough leather shows up (which is preferable... "

This mod has two goals:
  • Remove all of the flavors of the leather materials from stockpiles and military uniform material selections, since those flavors don't actually exist.
    This could have been accomplished by making sure that every reference to a leather material correctly pointed to the desired outcome material defined under CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL.
  • Allow workflow GUI to easily locate the desired material without having to look through the huge list of creatures to find the correct blank entry that is used to actually define desired material.
    The GUI will always display the entire list of creatures because it doesn't know if you want to get the skull, skin, bone, etc.  So each creature has it's own sub-category.
    This goal can only be accomplished by making a creature of only a single material for each of the desired input materials

I know I mentioned in a previous post that I wanted to do it for other materials, but the only one I would actually do it for would be the creature derived threads and cloths.  I can't think of any other thing where I'd be important to shorten up the list of available flavor materials, because I don't think anyone would micromanage that they only want their bone bolts made from bear bones and not lamb bones, but someone may decide that they only want to make clothes from silk and their bags from cotton, because of the large difference in value. (Yes, this can be done with stockpile management, but you'd either need multiple clothier shops or have to micromanage it. Standardizing these materials would mean that you could create a workflow item to produce cotton bags and one to produce silk shirts within the same workshop.)

And no matter what, I wouldn't do it for skulls because I want to know that the totem at the gate is a drake and not a moleweasel.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:25:37 pm by Billy Jack »
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thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2013, 02:26:52 pm »

I think you misunderstand me.

I DON'T want dog leather in the (stockpile) list.  I never said dog.  I said "animal", and I wasn't using it to mean mentioning each individual animal, but to instead have just 1 animal show up instead of each creatures name (i.e. dog) in the stockpiles menu.  I.e. one entry for all leather types in the stockpile menu that show up as animal.

As is in my (nonmw) game.  All leather shows up as "animal leather" (However, not in stockpile settings, hence why I want to incorporate your mod).

My question is, is there a way to get "animal leather, animal tough leather, animal plate leather, etc" in the stockpiles menu by designating the materials under creature:animal vs these new leather based creatures.

It would just be easier to hand implement if everything could be under creature:animal vs individual creatures for each leather type.  I don't know if that's a requirement for this to work or not.

Update:
I edited my prior post to hopefully clear up some of the confusion.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 02:38:14 pm by thistleknot »
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2013, 03:18:52 pm »

OK. I know we are having a misunderstanding, which is what happens when there are too many generic references for what we are discussing; ANIMAL defined as an object in the RAWs, "animal" as the name of said object, and "animal" in the generic sense of a living creature.

Yes, it could likely be done like you say, and at the risk of sounding "cheeky", go ahead and do it. :)

Taking on a project that is personal to you is the best way to learn how to mod.

I stated my two main goals and my method accomplished it.  The way you are describing your method, would result in my new leather greaves to be named "animal leather greaves", which is not "sexy" and is redundant since the only place we can get leather is from an animal. Leaving the name blank would make it harder to filter by in either the stockpile, the military uniform material, or in the Workflow GUI.
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thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2013, 12:39:57 am »

I think I understand now

I went through the entire diffmerge comparison of your files with 4c

and realized there's nothing really distinguishing that the leather name is to be separate from the creature.

So I re-read your post

and now it makes sense

Quote
However, when a creature is only made up of one material, there is no further need to go into the creature to specify the material(edit: as with current stockpile behaviour). That material is brought up to the top and has the creature name prepended to it (edit: i.e. tough) to describe that material. So in creature_masterwork.txt, there is a creature [CREATURE:ANIMAL_TOUGHLEATHER] with [NAME:tough:tough:tough]. If you filter the creature list to "tough", you will see "tough leather" because there is no other material in that creature. In this case, the leather material is LEATHER_EXOTIC which has a name of "leather". (You will also see a creature named "tough" which has all of the other materials for BONE, MUSCLE, etc.)

so by using these leather creatures with only one material defined.  This is what creates the no concatenation of the creatures name to the material (such as dog leather, or cat leather)

I think that's how I'm reading it.

My mod btw only uses the standard leather, it does have exotic and rare, but only for the purpose of (including) mwmod (creatures).  I should probably downgrade them back to regular.



So I think I just need

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:SINEW_LEATHER]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:SINEW:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:LEATHER]

but I wanted to change it to creature_mat:animal:leather_accelerated.

but if I do that... then I think I'm still stuck with the animal name pre-pended to the leather... that's because the creature i'm referencing doesn't have just 1 material?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 12:47:00 am by thistleknot »
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2013, 01:12:49 am »

The name of the leather is still concatenated. It's just that the leather creature doesn't have a name assigned to it. For MW, there are multiple materials that just have the name "leather" so their creature has a name in order to produce the desired name.

Case in point, Netherbark Leather.  CREATURE:NETHERBARK has a name of "netherbark" and one material, LEATHER_NETHER, which has a name of "leather".  Put them together and you have "Netherbark Leather".

What are you doing with SINEW?

The animal name is always prepended. Masterwork just has no name defined for [CREATURE:ANIMAL].

I suggest that you try putting it into a separate creature and change the BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS  LEATHER to point to it and see what you get.  Butcher some creatures and make some armor.

Then change STANDARD MATERIALS to point you your ANIMAL and see what you get when you make some armor.  Check how the material is located in stockpiles, military uniform material designation, and Workflow GUI.
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thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2013, 02:46:24 am »

oh derp...

I chose a bad example with the sinew...

I meant leather_animal...  which I'd like to be referencing leather_accelerated

Urist McTeellox

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2013, 11:19:08 pm »

Just did a MWDF-SWP-unified (4d + DFHack r4) embark. I *love* the new leather stockpiles!

This is just a huge thank-you for simplifying what was one of the more frustrating aspects of the game. :D

~ T
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #52 on: November 16, 2013, 01:45:50 am »

Thank you, Urist.  It has also been a major pain point for me as well.

I have a long history of complaining about leather.  http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=98196.msg4122770#msg4122770

My first post mentioned leather as well.  One would have thought that Billy Jack wore a leather jacket instead of jean jacket.
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thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2013, 10:03:37 pm »

I've been trying to merge 3 mods together... (more of less, tiered leather, and more leather) all into civilization forge 2.8... but... it also has hide (and i'm merging it into a bastardized version of civmwforge).

i'm stuck.

I get one feature going, or another not.  Just not all 3.

Any advice for how I could apply this to vanilla raws?

or better yet, Accelerated Mod!
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 10:05:12 pm by thistleknot »
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2013, 07:13:53 pm »

Apply to Vanilla:

creature_fake.txt

[OBJECT:CREATURE]

// fake creature for leather
[CREATURE:ANIMAL_LEATHER]
   [NAME:::]
   [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:LEATHER:LEATHER_TEMPLATE]
   [SELECT_MATERIAL:ALL]
        [ARENA_RESTRICTED]
        [DOES_NOT_EXIST]



b_detail_plan_default

[OBJECT:BODY_DETAIL_PLAN]

[BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
   This command is just a shortcut for the similar lines (USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE|<token>|<template>) in a creature definition.
   [ADD_MATERIAL:SKIN:SKIN_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:FAT:FAT_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:MUSCLE:MUSCLE_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:BONE:BONE_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:CARTILAGE:CARTILAGE_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:HAIR:HAIR_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:TOOTH:TOOTH_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:EYE:EYE_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:NERVE:NERVE_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:BRAIN:BRAIN_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:LUNG:LUNG_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:HEART:HEART_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:LIVER:LIVER_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:GUT:GUT_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:STOMACH:STOMACH_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:GIZZARD:GIZZARD_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:PANCREAS:PANCREAS_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:SPLEEN:SPLEEN_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:KIDNEY:KIDNEY_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:LEATHER:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:LEATHER]  <--
   [ADD_MATERIAL:TALLOW:TALLOW_TEMPLATE]
   [ADD_MATERIAL:SOAP:SOAP_TEMPLATE]



I don't know why SKINS show up for purchase at embark, but the leather stockpile will only have "Leather".
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Give a dwarf a Fishpond, couple of buckets, build a Fishery, and enable Fishfarming labor; you feed him for a lifetime. (And get someone to clean and prep the fish)

thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #55 on: November 18, 2013, 09:38:54 pm »

I think I know where the confusion is coming from.

Meph's 4d nor 4c has body_detail_plan:standard_materials in the creature:animal] entry.

So I don't see how his animal template is producing this leather type...

In fact it has no body_detail_plans defined...

Update:
Well, using body_detail_plan:standard_materials which is defined in "my" civmwforge v6, I was able to get the standard leather.

I'm not sure how Meph does it without body_detail_plans... I imagine it has something to do with just referencing the creature:animal_leather at various places...

One thing I noticed.  When I use a body detail plan, I can't specify select_material:leather... I guess that's just a body_Detail_plan issue I need to look up
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 09:53:00 pm by thistleknot »
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #56 on: November 18, 2013, 10:20:56 pm »

Body detail plans are simply shortcuts that provide a starting point for materials. If you didn't use body detail plans, you would have to specify every material that makes up the creature.

As it is, you can use a body detail plan to create a starting point and then add/remove/replace body materials to be made of different things.

Also, materials are used when the creature is dead and butchered and the processing of those butchered parts. Tissues are the materials that make up the creature when it is alive.  Standard Tissues in the body detail plans, work with the defined TISSUE_TEMPLATES to define the material of the tissue.  When BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:COMMON_ANIMAL_TISSUES is adding a skin tissue, e.g. ADD_TISSUE:SKIN:SKIN_TEMPLATE, it is pointing to a TISSUE_TEMPLATE that is (confusingly enough) named SKIN_TEMPLATE and defined in the tissue_template_default.txt file.

From Vanilla:
[TISSUE_TEMPLATE:SKIN_TEMPLATE]
   [TISSUE_NAME:skin:NP]
   [SCARS]
   [TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SKIN]   <-- So in this case the material defined as the creature's skin,
                                                                                                 will be used as the material for the skin tissue (when it is alive),
                                                                                                 but it could have been iron, ala [TISSUE_MATERIAL:INORGANIC:IRON]
   [RELATIVE_THICKNESS:1]
   [HEALING_RATE:100]
   [VASCULAR:1]
   [PAIN_RECEPTORS:5]
   [CONNECTS]
   [TISSUE_SHAPE:LAYER]
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Give a dwarf a fish, you feed him for a season.
Give a dwarf a Fishpond, couple of buckets, build a Fishery, and enable Fishfarming labor; you feed him for a lifetime. (And get someone to clean and prep the fish)

thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #57 on: November 18, 2013, 10:33:18 pm »

I'm vaguely familiar with all that

but it doesn't explain why I can't use select_value:leather then multiply_value:2 of the body_detail_plan leather material that's defined as creature_mat:animal_leather:leather...

but I'm asking that on the modding forum.

What i'm curious about, is how is MWMod 4d doing your more of less without using body_detail_plans to do it.

update:
exciting... I now have hide and leather setup like yours ;)

still can't select_material and multiply_value though
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 10:44:38 pm by thistleknot »
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thistleknot

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #58 on: November 18, 2013, 11:09:03 pm »

I think I found a shortcut...

[USE_MATERIAL:LEATHER:CREATURE_MAT:ANIMAL_LEATHER:LEATHER]

inside the creature vs actually putting it into a body_detail_plan...


although, that totally does away with the concept of a body_detail_plan... so nevermind

but maybe that's what meph did.

Update:
I think I get what meph did.

He's using skin in [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SKIN:SKIN_TEMPLATE]

which drops globs (more leather mod), which is transformed into leather via tanning, which is where your animal_leather:leather comes in

Update:
I just checked my mod, and apparently, only cow and water_buffalo have multiply_value... and since I'm going to use more leather mod... players will get more skin, so there's no real point in multiply_value of specific animal leathers if more leather gives more...
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 11:43:08 pm by thistleknot »
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Billy Jack

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Re: More of less Leather
« Reply #59 on: November 18, 2013, 11:56:01 pm »

I see you've already crossed it out, but putting [USE_MATERIAL:xxxxxxx:CREATURE_MAT:xxxxxx:xxxxxx] directly into a creature will result errors being generated in the error log.

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Give a dwarf a fish, you feed him for a season.
Give a dwarf a Fishpond, couple of buckets, build a Fishery, and enable Fishfarming labor; you feed him for a lifetime. (And get someone to clean and prep the fish)
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