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[EuchreJack]

While I actually quite liked Faster than Light, that game's tempo is the opposite of what I'm looking for in Darkest Dungeon.

[ChairmanPoo]

Bear in mind that the DD combat system, while flawed, kind of works because of the surrounding mechanics.This new game is the DD combat system, in isolation, made more restrictive, laid upon the node-encounter system of FTL. And with no flexibility in terms of what you do. Every single combat is either victory, or death (or in some cases draw by surviving for 5 turns). That's all. I feel this is one of the worst implementations of DD2 they could have made (honestly, I was hoping for something closer to Wildermyth). In many ways it's far less original and more derivative than the original DD1, or that a DD1 clone would have been :/  Graphics are good, I guess, but I liked the charm of original DD graphics.I'll go ahead and say it: Battle Brothers and Wildermyth are both far better spiritual successors to DD than the actual DD2.I honestly dont get what possessed this guys to think that the combat system in DD1 was so brilliant that DD1 would be improved if it was plodding combat, nonstopHeck, if you have the Color of Madness DLC you can get a pretty clear idea of what DD2 is like. Imagine the whole game of DD1 was just the Mill. Over and over. Nonstop.

Edit: superceded by events. The game is actually good now

[nenjin]

Heck, if you have the Color of Madness DLC you can get a pretty clear idea of what DD2 is like. Imagine the whole game of DD1 was just the Mill. Over and over. Nonstop.

 

Not what I wanted to hear. For me the best part of DD was the exploration, and the combat broke up that monotony so both continued to be enjoyable. Crimson Court took that combo over the top and made it into a slog, and Color of Madness as you said just made the combat the focus.

Guess I'm glad to have heard this even though it's a big disappointment. Guess I'll see what the Steam reviews say once it's out of Early Access.

But yes. I've always gotten the impression that the DD devs are exceptionally proud of their combat system, because its underpinnings are basically a board game. And to be fair, next to the art direction and voice acting, the combat system is the most robust and polished part of DD1. So I guess I'm not surprised they decided to cut away stuff and just focus on the combat. Not saying I like it, but I think I can understand the thinking from their side.

[ChairmanPoo]

Heck, if you have the Color of Madness DLC you can get a pretty clear idea of what DD2 is like. Imagine the whole game of DD1 was just the Mill. Over and over. Nonstop.

 

Not what I wanted to hear. For me the best part of DD was the exploration, and the combat broke up that monotony so both continued to be enjoyable. Crimson Court took that combo over the top and made it into a slog, and Color of Madness as you said just made the combat the focus.

QFT

[Aoi]

So it sounds like they took the roguelite formula, added in metaprogression in the form of the estate (converting it from roguelite to mission-based), and that's how we got DD. And then they turned around, ripped out the estate, and... we have DD2.

What did they actually do well, because it can't all be bad, can it?

[nenjin]

No. I mean, I'm impressed with the animations and Wayne June is still having sex with your ears. But that's aesthetics. Gameplay matters at least half as much. I doubt it will just be flat out "bad." But you know....proof is in the playtime. DD was good enough and enough of a slog I willingly put in 200+ hours. Will DD2 be that way? Or a "played it for 10 hours then moved on" or "played it once for a completion and never felt the need to go back." Despite all its flaws, I still feel the call of DD regularly. That's how I judge "a game" versus "a good game."

[Aoi]

Oh, I get it. I mean, this is this a forum spawned from DF which has, in its default form, is... fairly light on aesthetics. 

But seems that even the usually jubilant reviewers have very little to say that's good about the actual gameplay, outside of the relationship system.

[nenjin]

Man, sounds like there's lots more ways to dick yourself over in DD2.

There's multiple world state bars, like the Torch from the first game, but also a "Loathing" bar. Low torch + High Loathing = Combat being terrible for you. And then each character has relationships with other characters in the party that sorta take the place of Virtues and Afflictions. "Good relationships are fragile but negative relationships are hard to change." Great. This is all sounding less than fun.

[Loud Whispers]

I think one thing roguelike makers forget is that the fundamental basis of what makes a roguelike roguelike is not permadeath, but the game being fun, challenging and interesting due to its game rules alone

*EDIT
At least I discovered Wildermyth and Battle Brothers now

[ChairmanPoo]

Aye. Those are pretty cool.


EDIT: so the Red Hook guys posted this in facebook the day of release.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I find the apologetic tone curious. Excusatio non petita, accusation manifesta. I think they knew that at this point what they have doesn't cut it.

I'll probably revisit DD2 in a few months and see how it goes[/s]

We'll see. As I said before, I think Wildermyth and Battle Brothers are better choices right now.  Myself, I'll probably play those, and DD1, while keeping an eye on DD2. my initial impression is disappointing, but I've gotten surprises in the past. IE: I  underwhelmed by Kingmaker at release, but afterwards I revisited it and liked it better.

Edit: I did revisit it and I did like it much much better

[SOLDIER First]

Darkest Dungeon 2 continuing the series tradition of making everything as difficult, unfair, and unenjoyable as humanly possible simply because it's a grimdark fantasy game and life isn't fair or whatever the fuck.

[Nelia Hawk]

DD2 feels more like slay the spire where you can move in straight lines (where not even much happens) from event to event or combat to combat, than exploring a madness dungeon...

the story of DD2 might even be a fever dream in the heads of the DD1 characters, trying to cope with the madness that happened in DD1 after beating it and remembering their past that lead to them being the class they are.

than again the meta progression felt better in STS than in so far in DD2... unlocking new combat cards felt way more impactfull than unlocking a +10% food innitem or +10% resistance trinket with one new class every few levels.

i think right now it might get too repetetive to start over and over and over, till you got enough unlocks to get a random run where you finally do better than before...
in DD1 even a "lost" run meant something... you might lost 3 guys, but still made it out and got a few items and continue with new people, its something to recover from and was okay with all the madness happening.
in DD2 once one guy dies you are on a downwards spiral and might even feel like just restarting to be more worth your time than playing it out till all die to get a better score for more unlocks.

the whole feel of exploring a dungeon and finding loot while fighting the monsters, isnt really there anymore... (obviously)
its more trying to be about the characters on their path... through their mental feverdream of madness fighting their demons. (as if they gone mad after DD1 and are in hospital in a coma)

that they managed to keep the same artstyle and atmosphere from DD1 as 3d now is really great.

and it is early access... so it can still change a bit till "release".

[nenjin]

The more I think about it, the more I think the intent is right there in the name. Road to Ruin. A one-way trip with no off ramps to something bad, the climax of screwing with eldritch powers. TBH, doing the final dungeon in DD1 is a bridge I've never crossed. (Was waiting for the sequel.) So the "big reveal" to me isn't a strong motivator, and it sounds like what DD2 is building to.

[Blue_Dwarf]

Watched some youtube videos on DD2.

The character animations are excessive and horribly over the top. Even when everyone is just standing still, they are literally dancing all over the place. Some enemy keeps laughing all the time. I can't imagine how is anyone going to play this for hours while looking at all that crap.

This is Diablo 3 type of cartoony sequel that has nothing to do with the previous games.

[Dorsidwarf]

Dang, popped in to see what people thought of it in here and was blasted away by the hatred... Is it really that bad? I was never able to get into Darkest Dungeon because of its awfully unfun metaprogression based around juggling the usage of a bunch of randomly assigned meta resources, as much as I liked everything else about it. All the reviewers ive seen play it have been really enthusiastic also.

I do agree the characters look way too "active" though, especially on like, passive screens where they arent doing anything.