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Author Topic: DotA 2 - the ultimate thread  (Read 148632 times)

umiman

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1080 on: November 28, 2014, 10:25:23 pm »

It's his first game lol, give him a break. At least he chose the manliest hero in the game to start out with.

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Putnam

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1081 on: November 28, 2014, 10:38:03 pm »

I didn't say he was bad, just that the game in general was weird :P All in all, at the very least he did well.

TempAcc

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1082 on: November 28, 2014, 11:04:24 pm »

Sven is also another hero that can be played either as a roaming support thing or as a hard carry, albeit a less safe choice.
I think I should start getting my broodmother togheder. She's actualy a pretty strong pick against teams who lack massive mobility or the ability to clear waves really fast. Unfortunely in my last game, our brood chose to go against a team with juggernaut, tinker and alch, while our sven didn't even complete his midgame items by the time we actualy lost.

Anyway, the new necro set is really great.
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1083 on: November 28, 2014, 11:11:22 pm »

I don't have the timing down well, too early and the creeps finish them or too late.  A lot of my LHs happened when my passive triggered.

Also look what happens when I try to hard support.  Hero selection was random but I think I ran with it pretty well.  All of those leaves were in the first ten minutes.  Entertainingly the Zues player called out "any noobs?" at the start of the game to which I responded "yup".  Grand total of his advice "try not to suck."  Cue him buying an early bottle to go bottom and me giving him two clarities when he ran out of mana.

Apparently limited doesn't punish for quitting, so I think I may just jump into the abyss of all heroes.  Presumably the brain exploding heroes like Meepo are too hard for people at my level anyway.

Edit: ok, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of the early buys feature a tango, a potion, a clarity, and some minor stat boosts.  Isn't any number of tangos+any number of clarities+optional utility buy (such as courier) and then throwing the rest into branches the best buy for like every hero?  Buying both potion and tango wastes an item slot, buying non-branch stat items is a waste because you could just buy 3 branches and get +3 in ALL stats instead of one.  And then turn it into a wand, which it looks like most heroes want anyway.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 11:16:00 pm by EnigmaticHat »
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umiman

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1084 on: November 28, 2014, 11:21:22 pm »

Oh man, to answer that question properly would require paragraphs and paragraphs of text.

I can't explain how I choose my starting items. It'll take too long. I see the heroes I'm fighting. The lane I'm going to. How much gold I have. How much regen I'll need. Etc. This all comes from experience. An example that might be relevant to your stage of the game would be if I had Juggernaut and I randomed him. So I have bonus gold. Typically speaking, I'd buy a poor man's shield and some regen and maybe some branches. However, if I knew I'd be laning against Viper I'd buy a shield and as many tangos as I can possibly buy. Or if I'm going against Wraith King I'd buy a quelling blade, tangoes, salve, and branches because WK can't really harass me unlike a ranged hero. Stuff like that.

Basically, try to stick to the recommended build to start with and if you feel comfortable, experiment and see what works. Don't expect to learn all this in a few games or even a hundred games. Some people have played thousands and still just follow guides.

RexMundi

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1085 on: November 29, 2014, 12:39:59 am »

I almost always (see, few exceptions like axe) purchase 3 sticks, courier/wards, 4 clarities, and a tango set. that's all the money at start, all 625.
Sometimes i get a recipie for a wand instead of a ward/courier if both are bought. Main time i break up this build is if my family i play with go 'hey, i need a ring' which is our making use of sharable rings of health. My father often gives me one when i axe. 7.7 regen on axe at level one? yes please
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Ringmaster

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1086 on: November 29, 2014, 01:55:05 am »

One of the main reason to swap branches out for a different item at the start is because there are four other items that offer slightly better stats in the long run:

Circlet: Two branches for the price of three, but it also builds into three very useful items for the laning stage (Which is two more than branches traditionally build into).

Gauntlet of Strength: If you feel you need the extra HP provided by this and the Bracer that it quickly builds into (Say, for example, if you're a support with low HP or you're up against a hard-hitter). Combines with Circlet.

Mantle of Intelligence: The Gauntlet of Strength for Intelligence. Similarly, this builds with Circlet into Null Talisman which is the intelligence hero analogue to the Bracer. This is useful for intelligence heroes who want to make an impact early by dealing out larger amounts of damage.

Slippers of Agility: The Agility equivalent to the other two items, builds with Circlet into Wraith Band (Built mainly for the same reason intelligence heroes build Null Talisman, you hit harder), or combines with itself again and a Stout Shield to create Poor Man's Shield, which is an excellent method of tanking damage early on in a lane where you might be getting hit a lot (Mainly by creeps, but also by heroes).

There is also the Quelling Blade, which is a good buy on melee heroes (Less so on ranged) that need last hits in a lane but don't deal a large amount of damage on their own, so they need this item to help them.


The main reason to go for other, less effective items over branches is because, after earning some money, those items quickly build into much more useful things.
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Wysthric

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1087 on: November 29, 2014, 03:43:56 am »

Basically every game I support I go courier & wards, 1 Tango, 1 Clarity, 3 Branches. It's alright.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1088 on: November 29, 2014, 10:25:54 am »

Wand might be a good item, but just barely dying with ten charges on it makes you want to kill yourself too much in my opinion.

Random and buy bottle is the better option.
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lemon10

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1089 on: November 29, 2014, 03:42:02 pm »

I don't have the timing down well, too early and the creeps finish them or too late.  A lot of my LHs happened when my passive triggered.

Also look what happens when I try to hard support.  Hero selection was random but I think I ran with it pretty well.  All of those leaves were in the first ten minutes.  Entertainingly the Zues player called out "any noobs?" at the start of the game to which I responded "yup".  Grand total of his advice "try not to suck."  Cue him buying an early bottle to go bottom and me giving him two clarities when he ran out of mana.

Apparently limited doesn't punish for quitting, so I think I may just jump into the abyss of all heroes.  Presumably the brain exploding heroes like Meepo are too hard for people at my level anyway.
No matter how terrible you are, you will be placed with people that are about as good as you after the few matches it takes the system to figure out how good you are. Even if you have slight brain damage, you will still be better than some of the people in the lower tiers, so there is absolutely no reason to be afraid of jumping straight in.
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TempAcc

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1090 on: November 29, 2014, 04:09:47 pm »

I tend to stick with the recommended items for heroes I dont play often, but I have my own choices for the ones I play most. Like, usualy I dont take a healing salve on juggernaut and just save the money and get an even quicker poor man's shield in lane, and level the healing ward earlier to help both myself and my lane mate if I have one.
Generally, if you recommended items list things that you'll likely not build into bigger items (like the int item that is recommended on necro, even though it doesnt build into either mek or scepter), then you should think ahead on what items you'll be building rather then wasting money on items you'll likely not upgrade later, altough it can help to get a few bracelets or amulets if you fall behind or just really REALLY want an early advantage. Reccomended item lists tend to be outdated too, so thats also something to watch out for.

One example of how recommended item lists can hurt you is how battlefury is a recommended item on juggernaut, even though it doesnt actualy do that much for you apart from speeding your farm and adding a cleave to your ultimate slashes. Its generally much better to just rush a scepter and then go for something else. A mjolnir has given me some pretty good results on juggernaut, since it also speeds his farm up and can proc with his ultimate, adding quite a bit of extra damage to several targets if you get lucky.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 04:12:31 pm by TempAcc »
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Rez

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1091 on: November 29, 2014, 04:35:27 pm »

IMO, brood isn't worth getting good at.  This hero is all about early-game dominance and preying on low-hp supports after getting fast levels; she's damn hard to play, too.  Maybe the recent changes to XP have changed how she scales in relation to other heroes; it seems like being over-level is a huge liability on such a dangerous hero, though.

Brood's skills do not scale very well:
-Incap bite doesn't pierce BKB, meaning that you don't even force the other team to buy MKB to counter it, just the standard old BKB.  I guess you could pick her to counter medusa... yea, maybe not.

-Insatiable Hunger is purgeable; compare to other ultimates.  This skill is really crucial to surviving ganks and teamfights and should be not purgeable or only partially purgeable.

-Even if you last pick her, there's still a very high chance the opponent will have an effective spider-spam counter already; 3/4 of the heroes in dota have decent counters to it.  You don't have to spider-push to use her well, but it's awfully nice to be able to, knowing you don't have to feed 100 or 200 gold and xp every time a certain hero comes to your lane.

IMO, she needs to be reworked into a Trapper spider: spawn spiderlings reworked into a small aoe web shot that massively slows (ias and ms) inside webs and does the same damage it does now, incap bite given bkb pen, and insatiable hunger changed to give damage and IAS or a poison effect.  Make her an assassin/counter-carry and she would be much more viable.



Seconding what tempacc said WRT bfury on jugg: just say no.  Jugg is a really fantastic mid-game ganker and teamfighter and it's a total waste of the pressure you can put on the other team to build bfury on him.
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PrivateNomad

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1092 on: November 29, 2014, 05:32:57 pm »

I got Wandering Harlequin Regalia mythic set
as a random drop
and it's worth $10

so happy
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 05:40:56 pm by PrivateNomad »
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RexMundi

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1093 on: November 29, 2014, 09:33:35 pm »

lucky, i had to pay a little over 10 to buy it.
Eh, i still like it that  much, so not complaining
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TempAcc

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Re: Dota 2 - Oracle is here! Also more events and hats for PA
« Reply #1094 on: November 30, 2014, 09:45:10 am »

I got extra set bundles from the treasure of the defender's vision thing, hopefuly the prices wont drop massively till I get to sell them.

Anyways, yea, I feel brood is really powerful but there are just too many heroes in the game that can not only counter her main thing (which is making massive waves of spiderlings to push towers) but directly benefit from it due to spiderling bounties. If the enemy team just happens to filled with heroes that suck at clearing massive waves, then yea, she'll likely dominate. Otherwise you have to be really careful to keep your spiderlings with you.

And yea, her ult shouldn't really be purgeable, since she depends on it to stay alive in fights involving more then a single hero.
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On normal internet forums, threads devolve from content into trolling. On Bay12, it's the other way around.
There is no God but TempAcc, and He is His own Prophet.
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