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[Sensei]

Updated 10/12, See bottom

I like to play games online with my girlfriend, but her computer is an old piece of Dell trash (Dimension E510, don't know what year but it was before XP had service pack 2). She's not a HUGE gamer, but there's some games she can't even play on there, other ones she can barely play- she's probably the only person to play the new Tomb Raider game at 640x480 resolution and 10-15 FPS. Online shooters are unplayable. There are a few games it does handle, but I'd like to play more.

So basically, I want to build her a new rig which will competently play pretty much any modern game at a solid FPS with low-moderate graphics. I looked around Tom's Hardware, and I was thinking of these parts:

-CPU: AMD FX-4130 (AM3+) $100, or Intel Core i3-4130 (LGA1150) $127.
I like the cheaper AMD, but I also think it might be a good idea to get an LGA1150 socket mobo for potential upgrades down the road. Speaking upgrades, do you think AM3+ is sticking around?

-Motherboard: This one ($51) for AMD and this one ($57) for Intel.
I just chose the cheapest ones I could find, roughly. I did avoid an ECS brand one. As a consequence of looking for cheap ones, both are Micro ATX- is this a bad idea/will it hamper future upgrades?

-GPU: The cheapest one alleged to be decent, a Radeon HD 6570 ($50) More likely the 7750, for $80. I'll see what refurbished models are available when I buy as well.

-RAM: this stuff, 4GB of DDR3 @ 1333mhz. $38
Second cheapest brand, the absolute cheapest had three people complaining they got dead cards. If I'm getting only 4GB, I'd probably be better off making it dual channel. For that purpose, I might get this instead. The logic behind getting one 4GB card was to be able to upgrade later, but I'm not sure if that's worth it considering the rest of the parts involved.

-HDD and disc drive: 1TB Western Digital hard drive is in the old computer right now (got that a couple months ago after the original 216GB one crashed). Will probably use whatever the hell disc drive is in it too.

-PSU: Went with this Rosewill since a friend likes that brand. $40. Is 400w enough? Will it fit nicely with a Micro ATX?
Had a hard time deciding this and not really sure if I'm on the right track here. I want to go cheap, and I want some wattage for expansion, but I also want to avoid this shit, and I've been told often to avoid going too cheap on a PSU. If you guys have got cheap PSUs that you've put to test and been satisfied with, I'd like to know what you got. Edited: Put a 400w PSU instead. Calculations suggest that 400w should be ample, even if it leaves slightly less room for future expansion.

-Case: This Rosewill Micro ATX case, comes with some auxilliary fans too. $50, free shipping. Warn me if that's too wimpy for the 3.5ghz i3. ALTERNATIVELY: this case which is mostly the same for $30 with shipping. For a decent savings, I only lose two USB ports (still has two fans) and I have a little expansion thing with more USB ports anyway. I'm planning to do this in december though, and I'm not sure how long the sale will last... for the exact same price, I'd rather get the first case.

-Interface: Intend to use a mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, and PCI wireless card we already own.

Total price: as of 10/12/13

Code: [Select]

In $USD
CPU-------100 or 127
Mobo------51 or 57
GPU-------80?
RAM-------42
PSU-------40
Case------30
HDD, Disc Drive, Interface, Monitor, Wireless card----Free
Total-----343/376 or about 433/466 including the price of the HDD and DVD drive already owned. Aside from the case I have not accounted for shipping costs.
And that's... well, actually pretty much the cheapest computer I can make. It's definitely entry level, and yet is has 4GB of DDR3 ram, and a 3.5ghz quad core CPU. Do you guys think it will actually be able to run modern games? Where should I improve staying under $500? Am I missing any components to be functional/is anything in this build incompatible?

Edit 10/12/13: I expect to be building this in early December, so I'll be revising then. For the most part, I only expect prices to go down, and I'll also be worrying more about what specifically is on sale around that time. Would you guys expect anything I'd want in particular to be better priced by then? Also, since cases aren't going to change dramatically in two months, would it be a smart move to buy that one case I'm looking at now while it's still on sale?

[wierd]

With a 64bit cpu (there is precisely zero compelling reason not to get one this late in the game.) There is no compelling reason to have less than 4gb of ram installed. Having 6gb installed is more preferred, as the game can gobble down the whole 32bit address space, and the OS won't be starved.

The biggest thing, is to make sure that your botherboard has a modern high performance socket, and has 2 pcie 16x slots. All intel boards will have an integrated intel gpu, because it is physically inside the cpu. The newer intel gpus are much much better than the old integrated filth of 5 to 8 years ago, and actually can handle many modern games. Surprisingly. However, they steal from the system ram when enabled. You can usually disable them when you install a real gpu.

Always do your homework when picking a gpu. Check out the 3dmark scores for the offers you are considering, and pick the one with the most bang for your buck, then forget about looking later. The market is too volatile, and doing so will only give you buyer's remorse, so don't.

The reason you want two slots in the 16x capacity, is that you never know what the future holds, and what you will need later down the line. You may well need the other slot for SLI later.

Snce this is a mid range gaming rig, i'd personally suggest an i5 based system. Just be aware that the stock intel coolers are often NOT SUFFICIENT, so seriously consider an aftermarket cooler for your build.

[gimlet]

DO you live in a city with a Microcenter?  They have AWESOME combos of motherboard + CPU - you can save $40-50 on the kind of combo you listed. 
Edit:  As an indication, they have an i3-4340 for $129.99 and then it looks like you can get the Asrock H81M-HDS mobo for $22.99 as a bundle.  In-store only alas.
2nd ED: or that FX4130 for $89.99 + ASUS M5A78L-M LX PLUS or Gigabyte GA-78LMT-SP2 free, or AsRock 960GM/353 for $14.99, etc.

If you're really trying to stay cheap, forget an add-on cpu cooler - the stock coolers are pretty decent nowadays and are fine for normal use.  You're not gonna overclock right?   Put any saved money towards the GPU.   If you're really worried, monitor with coretemp or something, and buy a cooler only if your temps are actually getting out of line.   If you wait even a little bit, the coolermaster hyper-212's go on sale for $15 or so, and that is an incredible cooler for the price.

I HIGHLY agree with the above - there is huge variation in GPUs and constant sales.  Look for benchmarks on the games YOU will be playing, and keep your eye on sales.  For a quick calibration, tomshardware.com has "Best gpus for the money" updated every few months - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html  Thich does list the 6570 as a good choice at the $50ish level - do see if you can go up a level though.

Can you wait a bit longer to save more money?  There are usually awesome sales through November leading up to Black Friday at the end.

For gaming right now,  it's mainly the most powerful 1 or 2 cores that make the difference.  Sometimes it's actually cheaper to buy a 4 or 6 core cpu that has better performance on each core, but just realize that for nearly every game of today it's only ever gonna use 1 or maaaaaybe a bit of the 2nd core, so concentrate on that instead of being seduced by marketing "LOOK WE GOT 8 CORES" -6 of those don't help your gaming performance at all.   Right now that usually means Intel, even though there's a slight price premium.  I'm not up on the very latest cpu/mobo releases though, so I'm hesitant to give any specific recommendation, sorry.

You can save a few more bucks on the case, for me the case is just a box to hold the stuff inside, I don't pimp it with ultraviolet lights and crap.  Just read reviews to make sure it will fit the GPU you pick.  Plow any savings into the GPU.  Like here $15 cheaper with free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/NZXT-Technologies-Source-210-Black/dp/B005869A7K but no "frills" like front panel USB.  If you're dead set on Rosewill at least look at this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153  better reviews and $40 after rebate. Subscribe to newegg's deal flyers too - you'll see stuff like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1681113901 for $49.99 after $20 rebate with code EMCWXXW52, or even http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119227 for $24.99 after $10 rebate with code EMCWXXW58 or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147023 is $31.99 with EMCWXXW54.  Put any savings towards the GPU.
 
RAM - Gskill is decent, just note that that looks like a single 4G stick, for performance you really want 2 sticks to take advantage of dual-channel, it'll be a LITTLE better performance, so look for a "kit" of 2x2G sticks.  Whatever you get, download memtest and test it overnight.  Look for "Hiren's Boot CD" or "Ultimate Boot CD", or most Live LInux distros include memtest.  Burn em to a USB stick and boot from them, run memtest overnight - bad ram can cause crazy, hard to diagnose symptoms in a build, spend a little time and check it out especially while you're still in the free-return period.  Look for the highest speed your motherboard will support and look for ram with that specs.  I don't see any super sales on RAM at the moment, alas. 

Power supply - yeah you're absolutely right not to skimp on this crucial but often overlooked item - I only buy Seasonic brand at the low levels, unless jonnyguru.com has a REALLY good review of some other brand.  Even the Seasonics can be had for a decent price if you wait for a sale.  Be wary of the so called wattage ratings - something labelled "500W" from a cheapo manufacturer is not the same as "500W" from a quality maker.  In general at least look for the "80 plus" certification - that's at least a sign that the manufacturer took enough care with the design to submit it for certification.  If you insist on a Rosewill at least look at this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182200  $50 after rebate, 80plus bronze.   I'd be REALLY tempted by http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438012  $29.99 after $15 rebate with code EMCWXXW56, 80plus bronze.   It got a decentish review on jonnyguru http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=351 - that's pretty damn good for a budget level PSU.   500W from a quality manufacterer SHOULD be enough to run 1 graphics card + your cpu/mobo/disk drive.  If you ever add a 2nd GPU  (I recommend against it, at this level sell the existing card and buy a single more powerful card)  you'd really have to count 12V amps and maybe get a bigger PSU, but for now 500W should be fine.  As always, put any savings towards the GPU.

Good luck

[wierd]

The stock coolers are NOT sufficient for i5s or bigger.

My i7 needed the aftermarket cooler, as even in a 60F room, the case temp was 90F and the CPU temp was over 110F at IDLE.  I had to take drastic measures just to get the temp down.

Not all aftermarket coolers are bank breaking. There's no need to jump straight to liquid cooling or anything.

[gimlet]

Heh that doesn't sound that outrageous to me, I have a system with a Core 2 Duo that's usually at 10-15% load and it's at 66C (150F), and it spikes up to 80+ when under full load.  I know those run notoriously hot though, especially on this motherboard (ASUS P5W DH Deluxe).

[nenjin]

The stock coolers are NOT sufficient for i5s or bigger.

I disagree, at least at the i5 level. My i5 750 keeps perfectly reasonable temps with the stock Intel cooler.

I only say this because I used to be adamant about buying an aftermarket cooler for every processor. Seems lately though it's flushing $30 down the drain unless you've got a monster set up.

[jaass]

You only need a aftermarket fan cooling if you are overclocking the default fan cooling will do just fine.

[wierd]

Or if the case is poorly designed... Or if there are lots of cables around the heatsink... or...

Essentially, if heat input is greater than heat dissipation, then you will need a bigger cooler, or more airflow, or both.

The usual cause of that is OCing, which increases thermal noise inside the chip, making it run hotter. (Heat input is greater).  But a crappy case will also have the same effect, because now the heatsink cannot effectively radiate the heat away.

Note, I said "Often". Not "always".

Consider the build requirements:

1) A modern GPU will be present (which are notorious for getting quite hot all by themselves)
2) Budget/midrange build, implying a smaller, cramped case, and a lower build budget to get a sexier one. (EG, more crappy)
3) Standard cooler expects a better environment.

I would bet money that it will run hot with the standard cooler under those conditions, especially if there are lots of cables inside.

[nenjin]

I think of that as the enthusiast's answer. And enthusiast will care about to 5 to 10 temp difference, where standard users aren't going to notice at all. And if your el-cheapo solution is running hot enough to cause problems, the core issue is probably bigger than simply needing a better cooler.

[wierd]

Indeed. My i7 needed drastic measures. Cut 2 large 12cm intake fan ports at the bottom, and installed exhaust blowers in the top. Still ran too hot on the CPU though. Had to get the aftemarket anyway.

[Sensei]

There shouldn't be too many cables and, while what I'm looking at is a micro ATX build, the case I'm looking at is pretty wide and has decent auxilliary fans to boot. However, what I've done for budget purposes is basically look at a high-clocked i3 processor- I wouldn't be surprised if that generates a lot of heat, more than its more efficient i7 counterpart even. But like I said, I'm not overclocking. The computer has to be pretty much reliable and idiot proof. But anyway, I don't see the Intel processor I'm looking at without a fan, so I'll at least try the stock fan first. If I go AMD, I'll get the WOF edition and throw in my own fan. By the way, should I be worried about any fans/heatsinks fitting in a micro ATX case?

DO you live in a city with a Microcenter?  They have AWESOME combos of motherboard + CPU - you can save $40-50 on the kind of combo you listed

Sadly no. I roam between Washington, Idaho and Montana but there isn't even one in any of those states.

With a 64bit cpu (there is precisely zero compelling reason not to get one this late in the game.) There is no compelling reason to have less than 4gb of ram installed. Having 6gb installed is more preferred, as the game can gobble down the whole 32bit address space, and the OS won't be starved.

Hm, I might look at at more ram. However, I think the board I'm using only has two slots. I'd probably just get this one 4GB card now, and add memory in the other slot of necessary.

The reason you want two slots in the 16x capacity, is that you never know what the future holds, and what you will need later down the line. You may well need the other slot for SLI later.

Heh, as a budget rig, SLI is definitely not happening. I'm certain it would be more efficient to get a more expensive single card anyway.

If I actually build this, there's a pretty good chance I'd go for a $100 video card instead of one in the $50 range. I think a Radeon HD 7770 or 7750 should do- despite being pretty cheap, Tom's Hardware suggests it's better than the GeForce 660M card my laptop has, and I've been pretty surprised at what that can pull off. It's definitely ample for the task at hand, which is making a computer that at a bare minimum can run pretty much every game that's out now with a decent framerate, though not necessarily with graphics turned up. I want my girlfriend to be ABLE to play Saints Row 3, but she won't care the difference between 2x and 8x antialiasing. I'm curious though- when I search for the card on Newegg, I see what is apparently the same card by different manufacturers at different pricepoints? What's even up with that? Is it worth getting the more expensive one? Will the $20 cheaper MSI one short out on me?

Edit: Also, I notice that for the AMD 4130, the version without a fan is $10 cheaper (even if it's normally the same price when not on sale) than the version with the fan. This leads me to ask, at what price point are aftermarket coolers necessarily better? Would I notice any difference with the $15 one I was looking at?

[nenjin]

This leads me to ask, at what price point are aftermarket coolers necessarily better? Would I notice any difference with the $15 one I was looking at?

My gut say $30 is where the differences start to show.

[gimlet]

Biggest diff is usually RAM - some of those have 1G some have 2G, then smallish differences between the clock speeds.  Ideally you can find an article with a head-to-head comparison of the cards and see if there's anything in there that matters to you.  But DAMN I see one of 'em is $49.99 after rebate, that's pretty amazing even if it is one of the 1G ones.

Also I ran across this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127727  $109.99 after rebate, that's a couple steps up from a 7770 and right around your new price point...

[Thief^]

Definitely consider using an AMD fusion chip if you're on a budget. The higher-end socket FM2 chips can hold their own on both CPU and GPU performance, and cost less than buying both parts separately. And if you get a motherboard with a pci-e x16 socket, you can upgrade the GPU later with no trouble
There are various reviews that show the performance of the built-in GPU: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/a10-6700-a10-6800k-richland-review,3528-6.html
From what I can find the AMD A10-6800K should be a similar price to your AMD FX-4130 + Radeon HD 6570, but with slightly better performance (10-20%) on both CPU and GPU.

PSU wise, get something with an official 80+ rating. Not for the efficiency as such (though you will earn back the cost of the better power supply in electricity savings in a few years) but because it means they can *sustain* their power rating, which means you're actually getting what's advertised. Before the 80+ ratings it was common to get a 500W PSU and find out that it could only really manage to sustain 300W, with the 500W being a "1ms peak" rating or some other bullshit figure.
EDIT: Oh, and if you do build a pc around a fusion CPU, you'll only really need a ~200W PSU. They're just that efficient power-wise compared to separate CPU+GPU.

[DNK]

CPU: avoid AMD, stick with Intel for this generation. If you're getting a dedicated GPU, then you can find a cheaper Intel that has the integrated GFX disabled. Get a really solid 2-core or a low-moderate quad (I'd suggest the latter for long-term use). I'd suggest an Ivy Bridge Intel so you can upgrade later on without getting a new motherboard. Whether to splurge here depends a lot on the games you play. I doubt Tomb Raider is a CPU-hog. Most FPSes need a moderate CPU. Still, clock>cores, though new>old regardless. Find a few good benchmark websites (lmgtfy?) and compare your options first.

Cooler: You absolutely do not need one. These are for overclockers. I have a stock CPU fan. It's fine. I live in the tropics (90F+). I don't use AC while playing. I have a low-wattage 3350P, though. 110F is cool!

MB: you get exactly what you pay for. This is a market with a ton of competition and thin margins. Gigabyte is a good deal, imo, on quality-price. You can almost certainly get a micro-ATX board, which is cheaper. Just make sure it has a non-SATA interface if your HDD is not SATA (I have a really old HDD and made this mistake).

GPU: for modern games, you want to splurge here. 6570 is definitely not going to cut it. $100 at least here, $150 is better if you're doing FPS and keep up to date with new games. Use benchmarking websites to compare first.

RAM: 1333/9-10CAS should suffice. 4GB should suffice. Dual Channel is good. Not necessary to splurge here. If you want 8GB, you can keep it slower to save, like 1333/11 or a lower MHz with higher CAS.

HDD: don't need a new one for budget build.

PSU: get a decent brand, use an online calculator once you figure out the rest of the parts to see the wattage you need. 500W seems really high for a budget build - 350-400W should suffice with good amps and a quality brand.

Case: unimportant generally. Lian Li is nice but pricey. If you get a cool enough case, the issue with budget cases are they're noisy beacuse the fans are small (fast and loud) and cheap (loud and wear out - get louder - over time).

Pricing: GPU should be the highest for gaming.

Watts: for budget builds, this is what to watch for. Getting lower watt components not only saves (very little) on electrical costs, but also saves on the PSU (can be $10-50 cheaper) and cooling (using a stock fan, not needing a very fan-heavy good case, etc, ends up another $10-60 cheaper). I also assume lower wattage components are longer lasting, but this is based on pure speculation.