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[Mephansteras]

4 scum out of 11 players is way too many, particularly if the converted player can bring an extra kill with them.

Yes, the Monster Hunter being a convert instead of a kill is something I've pondered for a while. It would have been a rule this game, except that I wasn't changing rules for the sake of consistency.

The Conversion at all is powerful, of course, but I had everything carefully balanced around various powers (NQT was going to bring back a Townsperson, which changes the numbers. Caz would NOT have brought someone back Scum). Then Toaster replaced in as the Monster Hunter and the balance was swiftly destroyed. Especially since he'd already targeted the town Knight, which meant that particular balance point was already lost after Night 1.

[Max White]

Yea, four is pretty strong... Had you lynched Tiruin day 1 we would be in a lot of trouble, and it isn't like this is the only game where a lot really depended on getting the right lynch day 1 (Like pretty much every cult game ever) but I will agree we did have a fair bit of fire power up our sleeves, maybe we could have gone without a knight or priest... And making Hunters a kill instead of a convert would help a lot.

Still, you guys had a warlock! Hoo boy! That sure gave us a run for our money!

Anyway seems like the idea was that we would convert Jim and raise somebody as a demon, and we would know for sure he was a demon because they weren't scum, so Jim was there to kill them with his super magic powers and... Give one of the better players a really good townie claim?

[ToonyMan]

Supernatural doesn't have a dead chat.  All I learned is that Nerjin's attacker was wearing boots (his dream-watching didn't yield anything).  The only other dead town player at the time was Cmega but they didn't have anything.

EDIT:
If you guys vote-swapped after I voted Persus with NQT that would have been hilarious.    Hilariously broken.

NQT was exactly right about Tiruin.

[Persus13]

Supernatural doesn't have a dead chat.  All I learned is that Nerjin's attacker was wearing boots (his dream-watching didn't yield anything).  The only other dead town player at the time was Cmega but they didn't have anything.

EDIT:
If you guys vote-swapped after I voted Persus with NQT that would have been hilarious.    Hilariously broken.

NQT was exactly right about Tiruin.

Yeah, one thing I learned from this game is that NQT's methods can work.

[Max White]

Eh, if you shift methods enough then sure it will eventually find scum and you can claim it works.
He method failed him in regards to Nenjin, Jim and Imp who were actually townies.

[Persus13]

Eh, if you shift methods enough then sure it will eventually find scum and you can claim it works.
He method failed him in regards to Nenjin, Jim and Imp who were actually townies.

Well Imp had the largest post count and was town. All of his vote analysis picks were scum.

[Jim Groovester]

Wait.

What.

Factional kill and one-shot conversion?

Three member start in an eleven player game?

That was...

Fun.

[Max White]

Factional kill or one-shot conversion. We totally couldn't do both in the same night, if it is any consolation, and it isn't really.

[Imp]

I think this and S3 are the two most unbalanced Supernaturals ever. Town's record is 1 for 3 now right?

Heck no.  It's 1 Town win out of 6 games now.

Win/draw record for all the Supernaturals stands Thusly:

17%  Town win 1/6  (S1, town faced werewolves who appeared as a normal killing Scumteam)

50%  Scum win 3/6 (2nd game, had a killing 'cult' that just happened not to have a converter role; S3 kill-less conversion cult who converted the 3rd party killer N1; S6 killing cult with 1 converter role and 1 priest [priest not used - might have ressed something very anti-Scum!]; no third party roles but one Town killing role, converted N1)

17%  SK win 1/6 (4th game, SK was introduced through rez, game actually started with no set killing roles, though there was a Devil - and that SK beat both Town and Cult -despite the handicap of having been resurrected-, go go superpowered Solifuge!  This win really does show that 'anything can happen' in a Supernatural game)

17%  'Draw' 1/6 (S5, Town faced werewolves who appeared as a normal killing Scumteam)

Far as our game goes, raw starting statistics wise, this isn't crazy bad - we started with a moderately high Scum percentage - 27.3 % - but we also started with the highest yet Town percentage (barely) - 72.7%.

With 3 out of 11 Scum to start, I don't think that's nuts.  Keep in mind, Meph has said he knows before game starts what each priest will rez as - that's only random to -us-.  We know what NQT ressed Nerjin as - but if -Caz- had ressed anyone it's possible that Scum would have lost, because there may be a Scum-killer that can come from a Scum priest's failed rez for all we know.  I am not ready to say we almost faced a total of 5 Scum, if only Caz had ressed Nerjin instead of NQT.  I'm even ready to suggest that part of the reason Town lost was that Scum failled to use their rez successfully (it's possible - think of what Nerjin's personality as a player might have done if he'd ressed to have some utterly awesome and clearly, provably Scum-killing power - that might have been enough to motivate even him to try and succeed instead of just sit and wait.

It's true though that with only Town targets to pick from the Scum conversion could not have failed.  The game -could- have gone quite differently, but it would have almost required us to lynch Tiruin D1 or for Toaster to have picked her for a kill N1.

I'm not ready to call this game, or even the set up of this game fair or unfair.  I don't even want to discuss that myself very much (oh ho!  That must mean the game's fairness IS Scum ;p)

Does anyone here play Mafia 'because it's fun'?  Or 'because it's fair'?  I play it because it's fascinating, and S games are extra good at fascinating me, at least so far.  I play it to practice other skills.  I do not see how Mafia can possibly be 'fun' for anyone.  Regardless, I am 'highly interested' in playing more Supernatural games, with or without a discussion of 'is it a fair game'.  And it's not because I'm hoping to get a Scum role next time.  I'm thinking I'm going to be ticked off when I get my Scum roles each time.  'Drat, I've got to play easy mode.  My win's an of course, and if I lose I clearly mucked up'.

So far, there's two possible 'real Scum tells' to my perception - 'Middle of the line player', and 'I actually don't want to interact with you'.

That sounds pretty good, go with that.

*Snorts with amusement*.  Oh yeah.  I can see it now.  D1, here goes Imp's claim "X must be Scum because I think they're not Scum and I don't want to talk to them anymore".

At least I -finally- have a finished and thus discussable game to point back to and say 'but but but but!  No really guys, my judgement is that bad!  It's so reliably bad that it is actually an accurate metric if you adjust for its incorrect calibration!'

Still, you guys had a warlock! Hoo boy! That sure gave us a run for our money!

Shame on you, Max.  Defend that idea for me.  Here's what I see:  Warlocks talk to the dead, who don't have to tell them anything - and can only tell them what's in their own PMs or what that dead player thinks.

The victims of the Scum kill and the Vig kill - their PMs are information free, as far as identity of the killer went.  Even if someone told me all of those death PMs word for word, I -still- would have had no idea who was Scum or Vig.

So explain what you believe what 'gave you a run for your money' by us having a Warlock?

[Tiruin]

*Tiruin hugs Imp and NQT..
and Max and Caz...
and then everyone else.

Hi?

[Imp]

*Tiruin hugs Imp and NQT..
and Max and Caz...
and then everyone else.

Hi?

Hi awesome!  You played great.  You ok?  *hugs back*

[Max White]

So explain what you believe what 'gave you a run for your money' by us having a Warlock?

It was a joke. 
The Warlock happened to be the least threatening thing that entire game. As scum we worry a lot about knights, werebears, wizards and guards, so it strikes my funny bone seeing these warlocks and dreamwalkers.


That is part of the reason NQT shouldn't have claimed on day 2 without good reason. I was ready to kill him in his sleep just because we knew he was a safe kill, and anybody with a protect isn't going to waste their time on him. It was only out of kindness that we killed the guy that needed to be replaced instead. An unclaimed role is a less attractive kill in this game than a vanilla townie or a priest with no power.

*Tiruin hugs Imp and NQT..
and Max and Caz...
and then everyone else.

Hi?

*Hugs back
Well done Tiruin! You really did well!

[Tiruin]

NQT was exactly right about Tiruin.

It was in the procedure where it was wrong! D:[/Imaybedefendingmyego?]

*Tiruin hugs Imp and NQT..
and Max and Caz...
and then everyone else.

Hi?

Hi awesome!  You played great.  You ok?  *hugs back*

...Yeah but..but I think I ranted too much in scumchat about the convert and felt how the Town was being misled (on another hand, my skeptical side was going 'HAH, that's what you get for basing everything on past games ' and being all evil and stuff) and...and..
Sorry D:

Toaster/Tiruin, why'd you lynch Caz?

*ahem*
I stated it before along with a subconscious note.

Toaster and Tiruin for their very longstanding cases against Caz get many town points in my eyes. There's no good reason why they'd have pursued those cases for so long (yeah, yeah, to seem town, but really that kind of early-form bussing is usually counterproductive). Persus hopped on and off the Caz-wagon, but I'm not sure I'd draw any strong conclusions either way from that.

While I'd LOOOOVE to say..well, keep silent and let this slide and be happy at myself, I'd point something out that I'd do the same as scum if scum, and town if town--meaning: If someone does such an act as doing a really technical error at me, then I'd hunt 'em out regardless.

It seems you're basing your townie points on me because my case is long, yes? Why so. That's quite an easy leap there. What're you following here. Vote pattern or...something else.

I believe nobody's reading what I said in scumchat? >.>

So explain what you believe what 'gave you a run for your money' by us having a Warlock?

It was a joke. 
The Warlock happened to be the least threatening thing that entire game. As scum we worry a lot about knights, werebears, wizards and guards, so it strikes my funny bone seeing these warlocks and dreamwalkers.

...Would it pain you that I thought there was a deadchat sincerely? :S

[Max White]

I believe nobody's reading what I said in scumchat? >.>

I sure hope so, they would know we are actually scum.
Shhhhh

...Would it pain you that I thought there was a deadchat sincerely? :S

Not as painful as getting called out on a fake claim. Now that is like being hit with a hammer.


Actually that is a good point. Would it be possible to have a secret deadchat if the game reaches a point where no players can come back to life? It would need to be kept from the town, but it would give us ghosts a place to laugh at what is going on.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

I wonder where you got your name..seeing the date of creation. It's rather fascinating speculating on it...I'm always thinking mischievous little cute imp

Such pleasant topics perhaps should wait for calmer times, or at least less time-pressed and purpose-driven forum topics.  Otherwise I'm glad to chat about it.  I have curiousity about your curiousity, but I don't see how to connect that to scumhunting, alas.

Also a common thing I do is ask unrelated questions (y'know, general-ish questions about the person that I subtly am too shy to ask out of game because..erm, I dunno..) then append the Mafia question afterwards in RVS.

...May I know Imp?