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[Max White]

Malevolent means bad, yes. He is either scum or a bad third party, but I doubt he would be a kill proof third party.
And each night I can check if a player is town or scum, excluding third parties, but the way it works is that I get to find out what they started the night as, not what they ended the night as, meaning if somebody was converted on the same night I inspect them I read them as town due to night action order, but that was only relevant until Caz flipped and revealed there is no conversion so NQT would still be town... Just crappy town.


And no, seer is not sage, seer is a type of mystic. I'm the supernatural version of a cop.

[Jim Groovester]

Jim— Do you think the scum team had two priests on it?

Probably not. But I don't like how quickly you bring this up in your own defense. Why, you didn't even know if I was going to continue my case today or not.

But whether I like it or not doesn't change that I don't think you were on a team with Caz.

More later.

[Tiruin]

EBWOP: I may be ocnfusing the OP but Seer = Sage, right?

Mystic - Mystics can pierce the veil of reality to discover hidden truths. Seer, Oracles, and Fortune Tellers are all varieties of Mystic.

Eh, I'm blind.

PPE'd.

When you say bad, do you..err, you missed the specific question, which solves itself now that I think about it. I mean is it in the intent, or the holistic person. Anyway, if what you're saying is true, then Persus...claimed Knight for some reason (where the reason in hindsight would be, judging by how it was played out = townie points for the N1 thing, and a wizard who protects others would clam up and be really unsure until massclaim). He can't be a Hunter (ability to kill) given how it would really contradict his claim.

I may be missing points but these are what stood out to me.

Max: Why'd you claim now? Given that what we're facing may be a cult (or a cult-in-flavor-only..judging by how Meph's games are). Why did you choose those people?

And each night I can check if a player is town or scum, excluding third parties, but the way it works is that I get to find out what they started the night as, not what they ended the night as, meaning if somebody was converted on the same night I inspect them I read them as town due to night action order, but that was only relevant until Caz flipped and revealed there is no conversion so NQT would still be town... Just crappy town.


And no, seer is not sage, seer is a type of mystic. I'm the supernatural version of a cop.

...How did you get the bolded part? The flavor dictates that he died as a priest. Meaning he could either resurrect, or..convert instead(?), given the dying words. Any flavor of your sight on Persus?

Also, probably unrelated and I may be shooting at anything here: isn't a Were-anything fall under third-party (Lookin at IronyOwl), which equals malevolent given its killing power?

Persus: Details.

Nice to see that my analysis was vindicated— I said Caz was scum and he was.

Caz seemed to have given up, but it's interesting that his final vote was on Persus, Jim's Day 1 target.

It's apparent now that there are two killing roles in the game: can cult's kill as well as convert? A monsterhunter probably offed Nerjin, which is legitimate given his non-existent Day 2 play. Or possibly a hunter killed Cmega as was nonparticipating too much to be valuable to town and scum killed Nerjin, afraid of the possible third-party threat and figuring, worst case, they kill a townie. Just speculation though as there's too many possibilities, especially now Meph has confirmed there's a mystery role.

NOW I'm sure I'm getting something but I'm..skeptical.

Meph: Whose voice did this one belong to?

[notquitethere]

Analysis 3

I just doublechecked my vote-tally spreadsheet and it appears I wrongfully assigned Imp's vote on Nerjin ("I don't see him as being able to play out of the situation he is in") to Cmega, so in my earlier analysis it should have looked like:

Spoiler: Revised Mid-Day 2 votes (click to show/hide)

# people voted not counting RVS & FOS:
1: Max, Caz
2: Tiruin, Cmega
3. Jim, NQT, Nerjin, Persus, Toony, Toaster, Imp

This lessens my suspicions of Imp slightly, but it should be noted that this isn't the tell-to-end-all-tells and could potentially be gamed. Also, her vote-rich behaviour Day 1 is in marked contrast to her Day 2 behaviour, so perhaps she was converted by the cult?

Here's the current voting record, fully up to date. This hasn't changed much from before. Persus switched between people he'd voted previously (Cmega and Caz) and Imp put a late day boot in on Caz. And today I've voted Max for the first time. I've left dead players on the list coloured in for comparison.

# people voted not counting RVS & FOS:
1: Max, Caz
2: Tiruin, Cmega
3. Jim, Nerjin, Persus, Toony, Toaster
4. Imp, NQT

For your edification, here are the Day 1 and 2 votes compared:

Spoiler: Day 1 (click to show/hide)

# people voted not counting RVS & FOS:
0. Caz (His RVS was on Nerjin)
1. Persus, Max
2. Tiruin, Cmega, Jim, NQT, Toaster
3. Nerjin, Imp, Toony

Spoiler: Day 2 (click to show/hide)

# people voted not counting RVS & FOS (including people previously voted the day before):
0. Nerjin, Cmega! (Both appeared to give up playing the game due to excessive levels of weaksauce in their system)
1. Tiruin (carrying over from day before), Imp (at the last possible moment!), Caz, Max
2. Jim, Toony, NQT, Toaster
3. Persus

Spoiler: Tunnel Counter (click to show/hide)

# votes for fresh targets on Day 2 (not including RVS):
0. Nerjin, Cmega, Tiruin, Max,
1. Caz,  Jim, Imp, Toaster
2. Persus, Toony, NQT

Conclusions:
Persus appeared to up his game, Toony and NQT were least prone to tunnelling, Nerjin and Cmega gave up and so their behaviour shouldn't really be compared to active players. Tiruin tunneled Caz for two days straight but was vindicated: not sure there'd be much incentive for scum to do this, obviously let's see how she plays today. Caz left his RVS vote on Nerjin until the latter's death then left his vote on Persus and was scum before giving up and leaving, Max has yet to vote for anyone other than NQT, making him Arch-Tunneller of the game and my Day 3 top scumpick.

Additionally, how many scum do you think could plausibly have been bussing on Caz's lynch? Is it correct to assume there's three scum? If we don't think two scum would have bussed their mate, at least one scum is in NQT-Toony-Jim-Max. I know I'm not scum, not convinced about the others.

(For clarification, Max's, Tiruin's and Jim's posts appeared after I'd already written the analysis.)

Tiruin

But I'm reading up on why people would mention a cult in the first place. Is this..some kind of foreshadowing or just guessing out? WIFOM territory, perhaps, but I'm looking back into the game to check on where the roots come from.

A lot of previous Supernatural games have had cults so it was probably a reasonable thing to discuss. It'd be interesting to see who mentioned it first. Get back to us on this Tiruin.

She did so in her closing post. She rationalized several cases-and my own (which does confirm I was being silly confusing) and then remarked on how the focus dwindled until she felt satisfied to hit the vote button down.

...I mean, she did get where I was going-and I had thought that the case of 'if you accuse someone of lying then its quite an accusation' was apparent until..well, checking it out.

Yes: she made her vote in The Closing Post. Well after it could have had any possible effect. She had no votes all day and then suddenly kicked Caz in after he already had enough votes to die and no other lynch candidate was viable.

And you're FoS'ing Jim along with asking him a pertinent question? Isn't that counterproductive?[/transparency]
Why're you asking Jim this and what brought it about? Specifically what you're thinking about priests and all that.

Jim had a bogus case on me yesterday. Part of his case was that he claimed to think I was scum. Given that I am a Priest and the scum Priest Caz has now flipped, I wanted to know whether he thought that it was in any way plausible that the scum team would have two Priests. Now that I've pondered it a bit more, he might well think that I'm not a Priest and claimed because I knew Caz was a Priest (it'd be very clever of me to do this from my second post of the game, but I am capable of leaps of cleverness). I'd like to hear his perspective on this in any case.

While I'd LOOOOVE to say..well, keep silent and let this slide and be happy at myself, I'd point something out that I'd do the same as scum if scum, and town if town--meaning: If someone does such an act as doing a really technical error at me, then I'd hunt 'em out regardless.

It seems you're basing your townie points on me because my case is long, yes? Why so. That's quite an easy leap there. What're you following here. Vote pattern or...something else.

You're right to be suspicious. We should all be suspicious of each other. Still, it strikes me as a pretty counterproductive scum-strategy to endlessly tunnel then bus your team-mate all day when you could easily have pushed an alternative lynch.


Max

Well my turn to claim today. I'm a Seer, capable of detecting if a player is benign or malevolent. I'm not exactly sure how that works for third parties though...

Last night I found Persus13 to be malevolent.

For those wondering night 1 I did inspect NQT and found him benign. It was enough to convince me to rethink my stance, at least in regards to his day 1 play, but then he started role fishing and wanting to lynch somebody for being a Monster Hunter, and apparently inspects come before converts making him as potentially scum as anybody else... Then Caz flipped cult instead of vampire and it kind of settled that.

Well this changes things a bit. If Persus flips malevolent 3rd party I won't consider you cleared, but if he's scum then I guess you're not. Still, part of me thinks that you're scum willing to sacrifice yourself for a mislynch today. You'd kill the Knight and get another nightkill in before being lynched the next day. Persus appears a lot more town than you. Tell us more about your investigation PM descriptions.

Thats bullshit and you know it. Don't pretend my entire case rested on that single point, you were role fishing. You might be so exceptionally bad that you don't even realize that you were committing a subtle form of it, but you were and I pointed that up long before Jim.

Now you know I'm not scum, how could I have been rolefishing? I merely acted in a way that you misinterpreted as rolefishing. Rolefishing is a deliberate attempt to discover the roles of others (implied for malicious purposes) how could someone do that without realising it?

Also, I find it implausible that you couldn't come up with any other possible targets on Day 2 than the person you'd cleared as most-likely-town. You have the gall to suggest I might be exceptionally bad when you (as a supposed seer) have been incapable of  any productive scum hunting.

If you are a town-seer then you're going to die in the night, there's no two-ways about it. If we flip you (the otherwise most scummiest player) today then we can confirm whether you were right and avoid the situation whereby a scum-player tricks the town into mislynching a town night.

Jim

Probably not. But I don't like how quickly you bring this up in your own defense. Why, you didn't even know if I was going to continue my case today or not.

But whether I like it or not doesn't change that I don't think you were on a team with Caz.

I wanted to see where you were at Day 3. I undermine the No-Double-Priest theory as a defence in reply to Tiruin above.


Toony— Do you still think Toaster is scum?

[Jim Groovester]

I wanted to see where you were at Day 3. I undermine the No-Double-Priest theory as a defence in reply to Tiruin above.

Um, okay.

Now that I've pondered it a bit more, he might well think that I'm not a Priest and claimed because I knew Caz was a Priest (it'd be very clever of me to do this from my second post of the game, but I am capable of leaps of cleverness). I'd like to hear his perspective on this in any case.

Do you want me to find reasons to attack you?

I totally can if that's what you really want.

No, really, what the fuck are you doing.

[Max White]

Tiruin
I'm claiming now because I have a positive inspect. That is what you do when you have a scum inspect.
It seems possible that he is a scum knight who was attacked night 1, after all we saw two kills today so it still seems reasonable their is a monster hunter out there and he really was attacked... Or somebody got lucky with a redirect and they attacked themselves thus no other kill or somebody made a lucky protect, you know I don't really know the mechanics here. As for the bolded part, I figured there isn't a conversion because there isn't a vampire cult, or Caz would have flipped that way.

What I do know is that he inspected as scum. If you want to know his actual role, the easiest way is with a vote.

notquitethere
Most likely town? Now when did I say that?
Anyway as far as flavor I look into basin of water, see an image of you and can tell your aligment from your aurora. There isn't much more to it.

You are right, tonight chances are unless we get a lucky redirect or have a protect, and I sure hope we do, then I die, but that doesn't mean just lynching me is the best way to test that claim. There is still the chance to survive the night and come back with another inspect.
If you lynch me today then the town spends two days lynching for us both, while lynching Persus results in one lynch for us both either way.

Right now a fake claim doesn't make sense in regards to numbers. Assuming we had three scum players, the standard for an eleven person game, that would leave 2 to 6 right now. A fake claim brings that down to 1 to 5, and with a vig out there that is pretty bad odds for scum.
Also if I were scum, why would I want to lynch the one player who wouldn't have a night action against me? There are plenty of other players that might have useful abilities, but if they know Persus is a knight the ability is useless as they won't attack him. If he were a town knight he was the second worthless ability in the game after yours.


Look, I'm not going to debate too much on this role fishing when I have bigger fish to fry now, nothing productive will come from it. Just know that at least if I thought you were role fishing I acted on it in the correct way, did I not? From my point of view that is what you were doing, and you can expect somebody to act on that.

Jim
What the fuck are you doing?

[Jim Groovester]

Homework, if you must know.

[Max White]

It better be in a STEM field. 

[Persus13]

Well I was going to vote for Jim since yesterday he was telling me it was highly likely that the attackers weren't cult, but Max's fakeclaim means he is definitely scum as I'm 100% town.

Maybe Max wants to lynch the knight because he doesn't think he can NK me. And because they know I was right about being attacked by cult.

Meph said there's a new role. Does this mean we have a Sorcerer in our midst? No one claim this, this is just pure speculation

My case against Jim:
I said this as part of an argument to Caz

Caz. Your comment has so many assumptions that it doesn't make sense. First off, you are assuming that a monster hunter attacked me and said monster hunter was Jim. Both of which aren't known yet. Of course this could also mean you and Jim are cult trying to pass off your botched killing of me as a town monster hunter, removing suspicion of the two of you and you just slipped up.

Guess who the two people who tried to downplay my findings D2 were. They were Caz and Jim.

I'll reconsider it when you explain to me why you're so sure it's not a monster hunter. Do vampires and werewolves make regular use of swords?

I can believe this if you were attacked by a monster hunter.

I can't really believe this if you were attacked by the scum team.

Though now Persus has claimed to have been attacked in the night, it might not be true after all. What kind of scum uses swords? Cult would use vampire fangs or daggers, demons would leave a bloody lump of meat, and werewolves usually rip their prey to shreds as well.

Jim has made comments about Caz and Max, calling out both for poor play in the past two days, but he has never voted them.

Max has shown signs of being scum too, stealing arguments from both Caz and Jim in his one-man crusade against NQT. Max may be a sage, but I highly doubt he is a town one.

Caz-overconfident and has made lots of assumptions from thin air (almost as if he has information that we don't). Pursuing a case against Tiruin based on said assumptions (lies, whatever). Posts haven't made sense despite some efforts to clear up. Attacked various others also based on assumptions. Voted strange D1. Has dropped of the face of the earth.

Where and what do you see @bolded portion?
Second bolded portion: Which posts exactly?

Jim:

No posts today besdies Tiruin? wow.

Hi Caz, Tiruin's post convinced me you're scum.

This is a bandwagon vote.

That you quickly reversed.

But still a bandwagon.

Yep, I thought the day was about to end and at that point in time was more willing to see Caz lynched than NQT or a no lynch. Sortof like you and several others did with Nerjin. It was also the only I could access the Mafia forum that day even if Bay12 hadn't gone down.

What about now-this-time compared to that point in time? Has the idea still stuck?

When I wrote that I was wondering if maybe NQT was scum. Now I'm fairly confident he's town. I highly doubt he would have rezzed a townie, voted Caz and been attacked by Max and Caz and still be town.

Also, for his assumptions. Well this dialogue between me and him is probably the biggest instance.

And I have to go to school. More afterwards.

[Jim Groovester]

Meph, do we know how Cmega3 and Nerjin were killed?

[ToonyMan]

PFP (more to come after classes)

@NQT:

Toony— Do you still think Toaster is scum?

Nope not really.


I'd like to say Persus13 and Jim are both scum at this point, but they're attacking each other pretty genuinely.

I doubt there's two scum priests and Nerjin flipped town again too so either NQT is a master of scum-play or he's town.  He's probably town.

[Nerjin]

I like sheep. [Bah post pun.]

[ToonyMan]

Max or Persus13 is definitely scum though, unless there's a large amount of shenanigans going on.

We also had a very nice hunter/mafia if they killed Cmega the replacement-needed player.

[notquitethere]

Max

Most likely town? Now when did I say that?

You said you'd inspected me and I came up good, so that makes me most likely town given your reported uncertainty over the possibility of conversions.

Anyway as far as flavor I look into basin of water, see an image of you and can tell your aligment from your aurora. There isn't much more to it.

I think you mean 'aura'. An interesting mistake to make— makes me think you've not actually just reread a PM.

You are right, tonight chances are unless we get a lucky redirect or have a protect, and I sure hope we do, then I die, but that doesn't mean just lynching me is the best way to test that claim. There is still the chance to survive the night and come back with another inspect.
If you lynch me today then the town spends two days lynching for us both, while lynching Persus results in one lynch for us both either way.

Only if you're a town seer. If you're scum seer we know straight away and we won't have killed a knight.

Right now a fake claim doesn't make sense in regards to numbers. Assuming we had three scum players, the standard for an eleven person game, that would leave 2 to 6 right now. A fake claim brings that down to 1 to 5, and with a vig out there that is pretty bad odds for scum.

Not quite: if we lynched Persus and you're scum, you'd still have the night kill which would take it down to 1:4. Which admittedly isn't great either, but the scum party would only need one more mislynch to bring things down to lylo (assuming no third party kills). Bit of a gamble but maybe they know something I don't.

Also if I were scum, why would I want to lynch the one player who wouldn't have a night action against me? There are plenty of other players that might have useful abilities, but if they know Persus is a knight the ability is useless as they won't attack him. If he were a town knight he was the second worthless ability in the game after yours.

A fair point.

Look, I'm not going to debate too much on this role fishing when I have bigger fish to fry now, nothing productive will come from it. Just know that at least if I thought you were role fishing I acted on it in the correct way, did I not? From my point of view that is what you were doing, and you can expect somebody to act on that.

We can drop this, sure.

Really, there's nothing stopping you being a scum seer that is telling the truth about Persus being malicious. You're right that it wouldn't make much sense to sacrifice yourself just to kill a knight, but maybe there's something going on here. It makes most sense if Persus is genuinely malicious. What malicious third parties are there? I'll have to look at Persus and Caz's interactions now.

Unvote while I look into all this.

Persus what'll you do if Max flips seer? Thinking about it a bit more there's not really a good reason for him to sacrifice himself over this, so... do you want to come clean? If your goals don't contradict town's there's no particular reason to lynch you when there are stronger targets.

Jim

Now that I've pondered it a bit more, he might well think that I'm not a Priest and claimed because I knew Caz was a Priest (it'd be very clever of me to do this from my second post of the game, but I am capable of leaps of cleverness). I'd like to hear his perspective on this in any case.

Do you want me to find reasons to attack you?

I totally can if that's what you really want.

Yes, please do!

No, really, what the fuck are you doing.

I'm goading the potential scum-Jim into making more weak cases to reveal his inherent scuminess. You going to bite?

Persus or Max? Who do you find more plausible at this stage?

Toony— it's not impossible that Max is town and Persus is third-party, but that doesn't strike me as likely from the vote patterns. When you've got time so proper input on this would be good.

Tiruin, Toaster— I got good feels about you guys. Max or Persus, who makes more sense? Max has a good argument why it wouldn't make sense for scum to fakeclaim seer, but I think he might be a scum seer with a genuine read on Persus. What's the best way forward from this?

Imp— you've paid attention to previous Supernatural games. What scenario best fits given that we know there's a cult?

[Mephansteras]

The Scribe's Tally Sheet
Max White: Persus13
Persus13: Max White


Day ends ~5pm Pacific Monday

Meph:

Illusionist - A mage whose mastery of light and shadow can use misdirection to help or harm.

Does the illusion work on everything?

I don't think anything in Supernatural works on everything, but the illusions work on most roles.

Meph: Whose voice did this one belong to?

A god, perhaps? You're not actually sure.

Meph, do we know how Cmega3 and Nerjin were killed?

Hmm...good point. I was tired when I started the day last night and forgot to include that part.


  As you debate, the guard captain comes in.
 
  "We investigated Nerjin and Cmega3's houses last night. Nerjin we found dead in his room, a long slash going down his entire back the obvious cause of death. Of Cmega3 there was no sign, although his door was unlocked."