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[Tiruin]

  You awaken again in the circle. Eleven of you stand to find those who threaten your civilization.
 
  Eleven? Yes...Nerjin stands amongst you once more. How odd.
 
  And no others are missing, as you feared might be the case.
 
  Many questions, and few answers at this point. Time to begin today's trial.



Day 2 has begun. It will go until ~5pm Pacific Wednesday.

Wait I'm blind didn't see this..

Ergh. PFP-ness.

PPE Nerjin

[Tiruin]

...General question: Is there any role associated with necrophilia? :X

[Imp]

Extend sounds good, I think we've got a lot to discuss.  I have some serious out of this game distractions right now too.

I have next to no time but there are a few things I really want to say and ask right now.

Well, we're back to Day 1 again. Did anyone learn anything useful?

This question seems to have attracted a lot of ire.  I'd like to know more about why - from both sides of the story.

If the anti-Caz side  (So far that's Toaster and Tiruin - but if more join it I want to hear your answers too please) is saying 'it's rolefishing, rolefishing is bad', I understand that much.  Won't say I'm powerfully convinced by it alone.  Is there more 'wrongness' than rolefishing in what Caz has said?

Caz, do you have any information you'd like to add to the pile that's been provided?  That is - why you asked this question, what value to Town you feel asking it/the answers you expected it to provide has for Town, and also, do you have information about the events of your last night that you were/are considering sharing?  How open do you feel the Town should be about sharing their night experiences/other information each has at this point?

About Nerjin, my read-throughs of previous S games completely support that you don't dream while dead.  I urge anyone curious about 'how stuff works' (that's most of us, right?) to read back over the end of game posts for supernaturals 1-5.  Every one shows all the night action posts, both the simple ones and the complex ones (where multiple people were affected by competing actions).  I also support that it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be a zombie.  When a zombie was raised, it happened 'invisibly' (note my early concern about a player that didn't appear to be playing or vote-able - I reference the old game's zombie in that)  He could be a good many other things though, from still Town Dreamwalker to Non-Town Dreamwalker to Non-Town Non-Dreamwalker.

I support the idea of the individual who raised Nerjin coming forward.  So far all resurrection roles in previous S games have been one shots - there have been both Town and Scum priests though.  The priest isn't proof of alignment, but I'd like to know who did it and why, please.  Or can anyone explain to me why claiming this obvious action is going to make someone more obvious a target for Scum targeting or for Lynching, and thus would be a bad idea?

Nerjin, was there -anything- in your experiences last night that told you anything about -who- or -how- you were raised, other than that there was a candle?  Where did you become alive again?  Was it in the Circle with the rest of us, or somewhere else?  if somewhere else, where and how did you get back to the Circle?

You quote the player list for the last game and follow that by saying "It's entirely likely that there be a Vampire Cult."

I get the first quote of Meph, he says rules and roles won't change, that supports your sentence.

But the second quote, the player list - it has werewolves and a lone vampire (who died, not surviving to move on to another area as his role said he must to win).  What do you see in that player list that supports "It's entirely likely that there be a Vampire Cult."?

Persus13:

a masked man with a sword (no other description except good instincts)

Who was described as having good instincts - you or the man who broke in with the sword?

[Imp]

Zounds, messed up my question placement/quote use to Persus.  Curse you, job pressure!  This should be clearer.

Persus13:

a masked man with a sword (no other description except good instincts)

Who was described as having good instincts - you or the man who broke in with the sword?

[Jim Groovester]

Or was that the plan?

Not really. I just wanted to bog you down in minutiae because arguing with you is annoying.

I didn't ask where is the evidence of a cult, I asked why he thought a cult was more likely than a protect. You sure like to misinterpret today Jim.

Yuh huh.

A vampire cult? Why do you think that?
Between having roles that have a protect and the possibility for the mafia to not have a kill, you choose the non-kill? Its only day 2, what pattern do you have?

You can ask him why he thinks there's a cult when there are other explanations for why there was no kill. But when you ask him for a pattern, you're asking for something stronger than just opinion.

Now that it's been sufficiently established, I'll ask again: Why did you ask him why he thought there was a vampire cult, and more to the point, why did you ask him for a pattern?

...General question: Is there any role associated with necrophilia? :X

I'm pretty sure this is not something we're going to have to worry about.

[notquitethere]

I am the Priest.

I resurrected Nerjin. As we know he was a town dreamwalker, we'll be able to tell if he's turned into something more sinister if there's more night kills or if he cannot furnish us each day with believable dreams. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt today and we'll see what tonight brings.

I have claimed now because my power was a one-shot and so now I am vanilla town. I breadcrumbed this in my second post of the game. My response to Max seemed so clumsy and ill-considered because I was wording things so that I could put my code in:

It's perfectly fair to wait until after Tiruin has answered. On reasoning it through, you're quite right in that it was bad form of me to be impatient in this regard. So in fact, we can pick this up after her response. My early game isn't always the best, I prefer to have concrete things to work with. As such, I'll be bearing a close eye on how people will be voting today. What to you constitutes a valid reason to lynch someone on Day One?

Today I hope to go over yesterday's vote-story and look at interactions. I'll be disappointed if we don't lynch scum today. Any questions?


Regarding Persus' Knight night claim

I've looked over the previous games and correct me if I've missed something, but here are all the potential attackers and their normal modes of attack:

Possible attackers:
Werewolves -Wolf Attack
Vampire cult - Compulsion
Sacrificial cult - Nets
Ghouls - Consumption
Devil - Presumably not with a sword
Vampire Hunter - Sharpened Stake
Monster Hunter - Axe

A masked man with a sword is most likely a hunter. Hunters can investigate as well as kill. So, if we believe Persus, we have a monster hunter that's trigger-happy enough to kill someone without investigating them first. If they're town, they'd be someone that genuinely thought Persus is scum and the only person that fits that description is Jim.

A scum monster-hunter wouldn't be completely out of the question but I'm struggling to think which scum-team it would fit with. Is a third-party hunter compatible with the pre-existing supernatural game templates? The other option is Persus is lying, perhaps to discourage night kills.

Jim— is Persus so suspicious that he'd be worth killing without investigating first?

[Imp]

I am the Priest.

Would you please discuss the flavor of your resurrection?

[notquitethere]

I am the Priest.

Would you please discuss the flavor of your resurrection?

Happily.

When night time fell I high tailed it down to the Temple of Death. There Nerjin's body was laid out for the high priestesses to prepare on the morrow. I used the power of candles, incense and chanting to plea to the gods for his return. The ritual worked and I felt at peace, my mind filled with bright light; and more importantly, Nerjin started breathing. I didn't want to hang around as this town isn't a safe place after dark, so I ran back home to bed.

[Jim Groovester]

notquitethere, why Nerjin?

Yes, I get that we can watch him and keep an eye out for any shenanigans, but that's not justification for raising him. What value does he bring back to the town, if he came back as town, and why is it worth potentially bringing in some nasty stuff into the game?

Sacrificial cult - Nets

I was looking over S2 for cult flavor, and they also knock people the fuck out with clubs, and then drag them away to be sacrificed.

Devil - Presumably not with a sword

Devils are the ones who offer deals. Demons are the nasty ones you're thinking of.

In any case, Demon kills are extremely violent. We're talking mutilated bodies, rooms covered in blood, that sort of thing.

Is a third-party hunter compatible with the pre-existing supernatural game templates?

That would be atypical. Monster hunter is an exclusively town role, if I recall my Supernatural games experience correctly.

Jim— is Persus so suspicious that he'd be worth killing without investigating first?

Investigate how? Oh, right, you think I'm a Monster Hunter.

The thing is, killing is investigating. You can either 1) learn somebody's alignment, or 2) remove somebody from the game and in the process learn their alignment. Option 2 is more productive.

[Caz]

Well, we're back to Day 1 again. Did anyone learn anything useful?

This question seems to have attracted a lot of ire.  I'd like to know more about why - from both sides of the story.

People jumping on the first post they can, I would guess.

Caz, do you have any information you'd like to add to the pile that's been provided?  That is - why you asked this question, what value to Town you feel asking it/the answers you expected it to provide has for Town, and also, do you have information about the events of your last night that you were/are considering sharing?  How open do you feel the Town should be about sharing their night experiences/other information each has at this point?

Since Nerjin is back with us and the night kill was blocked, we're effectively playing Day 1 all over again. The only thing that distinguishes it will be the information we can learn from what happened last night. I understand if some people are unwilling to share their results because of reasons, but if there's something they can share it'd be nice to see the information as soon as possible so that we have the most time to deliberate over it.

Personally for me, nothing interesting happened in the night, so I'm more anxious to be 'in the loop'.

[Caz]

Extend sounds good, I think we've got a lot to discuss.  I have some serious out of this game distractions right now too.

I have next to no time but there are a few things I really want to say and ask right now.

Well, we're back to Day 1 again. Did anyone learn anything useful?

This question seems to have attracted a lot of ire.  I'd like to know more about why - from both sides of the story.

If the anti-Caz side  (So far that's Toaster and Tiruin - but if more join it I want to hear your answers too please) is saying 'it's rolefishing, rolefishing is bad', I understand that much.  Won't say I'm powerfully convinced by it alone.  Is there more 'wrongness' than rolefishing in what Caz has said?

Caz, do you have any information you'd like to add to the pile that's been provided?  That is - why you asked this question, what value to Town you feel asking it/the answers you expected it to provide has for Town, and also, do you have information about the events of your last night that you were/are considering sharing?  How open do you feel the Town should be about sharing their night experiences/other information each has at this point?

About Nerjin, my read-throughs of previous S games completely support that you don't dream while dead.  I urge anyone curious about 'how stuff works' (that's most of us, right?) to read back over the end of game posts for supernaturals 1-5.  Every one shows all the night action posts, both the simple ones and the complex ones (where multiple people were affected by competing actions).  I also support that it is IMPOSSIBLE for him to be a zombie.  When a zombie was raised, it happened 'invisibly' (note my early concern about a player that didn't appear to be playing or vote-able - I reference the old game's zombie in that)  He could be a good many other things though, from still Town Dreamwalker to Non-Town Dreamwalker to Non-Town Non-Dreamwalker.

I support the idea of the individual who raised Nerjin coming forward.  So far all resurrection roles in previous S games have been one shots - there have been both Town and Scum priests though.  The priest isn't proof of alignment, but I'd like to know who did it and why, please.  Or can anyone explain to me why claiming this obvious action is going to make someone more obvious a target for Scum targeting or for Lynching, and thus would be a bad idea?

Nerjin, was there -anything- in your experiences last night that told you anything about -who- or -how- you were raised, other than that there was a candle?  Where did you become alive again?  Was it in the Circle with the rest of us, or somewhere else?  if somewhere else, where and how did you get back to the Circle?

You quote the player list for the last game and follow that by saying "It's entirely likely that there be a Vampire Cult."

I get the first quote of Meph, he says rules and roles won't change, that supports your sentence.

But the second quote, the player list - it has werewolves and a lone vampire (who died, not surviving to move on to another area as his role said he must to win).  What do you see in that player list that supports "It's entirely likely that there be a Vampire Cult."?

Persus13:

a masked man with a sword (no other description except good instincts)

Who was described as having good instincts - you or the man who broke in with the sword?

[notquitethere]

Jim

notquitethere, why Nerjin?

Yes, I get that we can watch him and keep an eye out for any shenanigans, but that's not justification for raising him. What value does he bring back to the town, if he came back as town, and why is it worth potentially bringing in some nasty stuff into the game?

We knew he was town and by the end of Day 1 it looked like he was getting his act together and finally starting to think critically about the game. If he keeps that up, even if he's a survivor third-party now, he'll be a town asset. Also, I might die or be converted on any given night so I thought it best to use my power on the first competent town player that died. Would you have left him dead?

Devils are the ones who offer deals. Demons are the nasty ones you're thinking of.

Devils can also get a one-shot kill.

Jim— is Persus so suspicious that he'd be worth killing without investigating first?

Investigate how? Oh, right, you think I'm a Monster Hunter.

The thing is, killing is investigating. You can either 1) learn somebody's alignment, or 2) remove somebody from the game and in the process learn their alignment. Option 2 is more productive.

OK Jim, please explain to me how night-killing town players is more productive.

[Nerjin]

Yeah, I guess. BUT I won't be posting anything of relevance until later. I guess thanks by the way. Let's see if I can't make up for my horrid play yesterday.

[Jim Groovester]

Would you have left him dead?

Yeah, probably.

OK Jim, please explain to me how night-killing town players is more productive.

You've got the entirely wrong attitude.

Vigilantes eliminates suspects. Even if they happen to be town, this is still valuable.

It's similar reasoning to the lynch; it removes a player from the game, but arguably more importantly, it also serves to help the town investigate the remaining players.

[notquitethere]

It sounds nice and Poirot but I just don't buy it Jim. If you eliminate town players you're helping scum win quicker, no?

This certainly isn't how Toony played the role:

ToonyMan Town Vampire Hunter

He investigated on his first night. Do you think that was poor play on his part?

Would you have left him dead?

Yeah, probably.

So do you disagree with my reasoning for bringing him back? Do you think town priests should always abstain from resurrecting?