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[Snaps]

Actually, come to think of it, this might be our first, best, and last opportunity to take advantage of the fact that Ritalia is listed as "Loving and Protective, deeply loyal."

If the she were to come to Gerand, pleading with him not to harm her brother's safety by taking away his best bodyguard at a time of extreme danger, or dignity by forcing him to capitulate to his demands or fight a lopsided duel, perhaps also implying that he doesn't want to make an enemy of the person who holds his master's ear and bed, we might have a chance of defusing this situation quietly and peacefully.

-1.

This is the epitome of stupid. Do you want to antagonize both our brother-in-law and tarnish our own relationship with our sister?

[3man75]

It's the only way we can side step noisy fighting though.

Snaps do you have an idea? or anyone else for that matter?

[Weirdsound]

Actually, come to think of it, this might be our first, best, and last opportunity to take advantage of the fact that Ritalia is listed as "Loving and Protective, deeply loyal."

If the she were to come to Gerand, pleading with him not to harm her brother's safety by taking away his best bodyguard at a time of extreme danger, or dignity by forcing him to capitulate to his demands or fight a lopsided duel, perhaps also implying that he doesn't want to make an enemy of the person who holds his master's ear and bed, we might have a chance of defusing this situation quietly and peacefully.

-1.

This is the epitome of stupid. Do you want to antagonize both our brother-in-law and tarnish our own relationship with our sister?

I don't think Penrod should mind. He was clearly annoyed at his Vassal for crashing the meeting, and he has to know that letting this escalate can only mean trouble for both nations involved. And I don't think asking this of our sister should make her hate us; At worst, she will think a little bit less of us, but what is the point of family if they can't look out for you once in a while?

[3man75]

It may make it look like were controlling penrod (be it alot or abit idk but it maybe/maybe not). Which is bad but...gosh darn it why can't people behave in a damn wedding? Is nothing sacred?

EDIT: We should hold talks with our sister and penrod. We'll ask about Gerald and his ability on the field/respect that he commands in the realm. Is he known to cause trouble or trow tantrums? Is he known to openly defy those he finds grievance with? If he's just as brash as he was today then there is no talking him to submission by either us or ritalia. We'll have to duel respect out of him in that first blood match or have Verrack of our mercenary group duel him to the death. The death one i'm against since 1. we look like a coward for calling im out and not fighting him and 2. he doesn't want to die. Brash not stupid.

We may have to leave barrick behind for the trip...maybe take a Knight with us as a personal bodyguard while on the road? Father would allow and i'm sure we can ask the Knight from when we went there last time to our bro for the trip right?

[Andres]

I don't really have much to suggest except to keep Barrick out of the fight. We can't lose our loyal bodyguard and winning the duel might upset even more nobles and we really can't have that.

We should allow such a duel only if Penrod or Gerand agrees to offer us a bodyguard of equal caliber should Barick be slain.

Not a good idea. It would come off as us only thinking of Barrick as a thing; an object - something that can just be replaced. Barrick would hate us if he found out we said this and we would lose rep among the mob and the more altruistic of nobles.

[Weirdsound]

I don't really have much to suggest except to keep Barrick out of the fight. We can't lose our loyal bodyguard and winning the duel might upset even more nobles and we really can't have that.

We should allow such a duel only if Penrod or Gerand agrees to offer us a bodyguard of equal caliber should Barick be slain.

Not a good idea. It would come off as us only thinking of Barrick as a thing; an object - something that can just be replaced. Barrick would hate us if he found out we said this and we would lose rep among the mob and the more altruistic of nobles.

It sounds like the whole feud is just between Gerand and Barrick. None of the other nobles came with him to make a stand and demand justice of us. If Barrick kills him, he will likely come across as a fool who picked a fight outside of his own weight class. If we make anybody else our champion, Gerand could easily turn public opinion against us by publicly stating that we are protecting a murderer from justice, and if our Champion kills Gerand, it may easily look like 'that clever evil price from Analysse denied our nation justice by tricking an injured party into a lopsided duel and offing him.'

As for treating him as an object, it is indeed distasteful, and could backfire, but honestly, if doing so diffuses a potential international incident, it is worth the consequences. We need a bodyguard, and know Barrick is a good one, but keeping him isn't worth blowing up our relationship with Adalbert.

That said, you could be right, and giving Gerand his fight could very well be a bad idea under any circumstances, which is why we need to talk with Penrod first, and in any case, a solution that avoids any sort of duel is best.

[3man75]

GM are we helping the revolutionaries against the rebels?

For organization purposes can we call our kelshan "The merchants" and the one in power the wizard's armies?

Simply for clarification. Other names might be better.

Also again let's talk with Penrose and Ritalia about this. Maybe they have further input.

We've already declared our intent to fight him for pushing around our servant. But we need to make it so he backs down for good. Ritalia is the best for that and I'm convinced. She has the social skills and the power being the Prince's wife to bully the knight to obedience. She'll lose face for helping us protect a murderer but I know she'll want us safe. Plus we can ask her to word it so that it's her doing and not penrods if need be to keep him safe.

It's hard finding good people and harder to find those we can trust. We NEED  barrick.

Btw w.e happen s happens but we must fight him. We can talk to him yourself later to come to a more gentlemanly agreement.

[Weirdsound]

I'm still not convinced that if push comes to shove we should choose Barrick over good relations with Penrod, but beyond that, I agree with everything that you say. We can, however, get out of fighting him ourself by having Ritalia offering the Knight to 'talk us out of our challenge' after twisting his arm.

[Andres]

It sounds like the whole feud is just between Gerand and Barrick. None of the other nobles came with him to make a stand and demand justice of us.

Actually, my point was that they wouldn't like it if a low-born bodyguard "murdered" a count and his son and either killed or was responsible for killing their son and and brother. Then again, they might not care, I don't know.

Regardless of what we're going to do, this duel seems a tad bit illegal. Either Barrick - let's just say killed - killed Gerand's brother, and his father duelled him over it, the matter should've been settled after Barrick beat his father in the duel, which would mean Gerand could not duel us over his brother. If Gerand wants to duel Barrick because the duel between Barrick and Gerand's father is illegal, then right there is reason enough to not allow the duel since this duel (low-born vs Knight) would also be illegal. I think this should be enough to simply decline the duel without losing face although we could get Ritalia or someone to mention this to Sir Can't-Let-It-Go.

Ask Barrick for fighting tips. It would come in handy if we do end up fighting Gerand.

GM are we helping the revolutionaries against the rebels?

For organization purposes can we call our kelshan "The merchants" and the one in power the wizard's armies?

Simply for clarification. Other names might be better.

United Keshlan Patriot Loyalist Front vs Tyrant Wizard King Sea Legion (of Doom)?

EDIT: Mlamlah, when we were training with Barrick and Elwer, did a 'hit' count when we hit them through armour or just whenever we hit their bodies? How good were we at doing so? Is there enough land in Keshla to warrant bringing a land army (horses, siege weapons, etc.) or does Raynor not know enough IC?

[3man75]

I'm still not convinced that if push comes to shove we should choose Barrick over good relations with Penrod, but beyond that, I agree with everything that you say. We can, however, get out of fighting him ourself by having Ritalia offering the Knight to 'talk us out of our challenge' after twisting his arm.

My point exactly. If we wants to duel Barrick than decline him saying that Knight's/Nobles can't duel Lowborn.

Maybe tell him also to learn from his fathers hot hotheadedness? Maybe though because it could very well anger him.

Also +1 to tips from Barrick. We're going to need them. Also let's make sure the King doesn't know about this it could cause a war, literally.

Very interested if Ritalia could pull off helping us by making by twisting his arm a bit and pleading to appeal to his sense of humanity.

Ask Barrick for fighting tips. It would come in handy if we do end up fighting Gerand.

GM are we helping the revolutionaries against the rebels?

For organization purposes can we call our kelshan "The merchants" and the one in power the wizard's armies?

Simply for clarification. Other names might be better.

United Keshlan Patriot Loyalist Front vs Tyrant Wizard King Sea Legion (of Doom)?

EDIT: Mlamlah, when we were training with Barrick and Elwer, did a 'hit' count when we hit them through armour or just whenever we hit their bodies? How good were we at doing so? Is there enough land in Keshla to warrant bringing a land army (horses, siege weapons, etc.) or does Raynor not know enough IC?

The Counter-Revolutionary movement vs The Revolutionary Movement?

Counter because (and GM telll me if i'm wrong with my lore/history) the kelshans were trying to help want to bring back the monarchy and trade.

Whereas the Revolutionaries want it kept dead (any family of the emperors alive? captured or were they all killed off?) and believe trade brings material possessions, which bring greed, which brings badness.

If it's how i say it is than i vote for my Counter-Revolutionaries vs Revolutionaries.

[Mlamlah]

I've been meaning to address the particulars of the Keshlan conflict for some time now IC, but i may as well give you all the information available to Raynor.

Currently, three major factions have established themselves as powers in the Keshlan Isles. The Imperials claim to have various members of the Royal Family in custody, and plan on returning the Dynasty to power. Currently they are entrenched deeply on several of the larger islands, and have managed to repel invasions by the Revolutionary forces by virtue of a strong land military. However, their navies have been thoroughly crushed, and mages are flocking to the banners of each of the other factions.

The strongest faction in the Isles are the revolutionary forces, who plan on establishing a new mage dynasty and drastically overhaul the class system. It's complicated, and Raynor doesn't fully understand it, but Mages are traditionally considered casteless, which disqualifies them from inheritance or from holding any authority or prestige. The Revolutionaries seek to abolish the merchant Caste and replace it with a Mage class.

The third faction has not declared outright hostility with the Imperial faction, but things are tense between them. They call themselves Reformists, and are not averse to the idea of the Imperial's returning to power, so long as various laws are changed. They also want to change the caste system, allowing mages to be a part of their family's cast. Some minor lords who've managed to come away with their holdings intact are declaring alliance with the Reformist faction, under the condition they be allowed independence should they win.

As for Geography? Most of the Keshlan isles are clusters of small islands, but some are quite large. The largest, the seat of the Empire, is roughly two thirds the size of ireland. So yes, while Keshlan power is tied strongly to their navy, and their skilled sea mages, land power does play some part.

Barick's training hasn't involved scoring hits, rather whenever you've made a mistake he's let the sting of his stick serve as the lesson. When you've trained in armor he's mostly just picked up speed and power in training, tiring you out more than anything.

[3man75]

Well aren't we in a pickel.

IF we can get the Imperials and Reformist to ally with our Merchant faction (Who should name themselves something appropriate) than things will be okay, military wise. Politically, it's going to be a mess but our aim is a kelsha that trades with us. Stability is NOT our concern. agree?

Hopefully, the dead-lock will continue to hold on while Sokolov and his organization gain power via money, war assets, troops and ships. We should probably ask him about how his plans for building a navy are going or if he even has one. We've promised in court  we wouldn't use the annalyisan navy/army and we need to abide by it to look strong.

EDIT: btw whens the update coming since i think we've all decided fighting the Knight and asking our sister to plead with him before for barrick to remain with us are the most popular decisions.

Also the above is in the future not not but the message should be sent to sokolov to make sure he's at least aware of that.

[Andres]

IF we can get the Imperials and Reformist to ally with our Merchant faction (Who should name themselves something appropriate) than things will be okay, military wise. Politically, it's going to be a mess but our aim is a kelsha that trades with us. Stability is NOT our concern. agree?

Hopefully, the dead-lock will continue to hold on while Sokolov and his organization gain power via money, war assets, troops and ships. We should probably ask him about how his plans for building a navy are going or if he even has one. We've promised in court  we wouldn't use the annalyisan navy/army and we need to abide by it to look strong.

Also the above is in the future not not but the message should be sent to sokolov to make sure he's at least aware of that.

Personally, I think we should have the Merchants ally with either the Imperials and/or the Reformists (preferably Reformists - I'll explain why later) before we attack the Mages. It'll be more difficult otherwise and should we succeed both the Reformists and the Imperials may attack us in our moment of weakness to push the totality of their respective agendas.

Now, if we were to ally with the Imperials, it would be easier to invade the Mage lands and hold on to them but we'd also have to ferry the troops ourselves, seeing as they have no ships of their own. If we won with them as allies they may decide that they've had enough of mages and end up witch-hunting them which would be bad for everyone.

If we ally with the Reformists on the other hand we'll have a military bonus without having to help them use it, more mages will flock to their respective banner (the ones leaving the Imperials would see they have a higher chance of success than the Mage Faction), and with the help of the Merchant Faction we could help draft some laws so as to reach a compromise between the Imperials and the Reformists.

The Mage Faction must be defeated totally, in a militaristic fashion. We can't have them later on interfering with trade (that's the point of our going to war).

-1 on telling Sokolov that we don't care about the stability of his country. As if we weren't on bad enough terms already. Also, when did we promise we wouldn't use Analyssian war assets, and why?

I'm still not convinced that if push comes to shove we should choose Barrick over good relations with Penrod, but beyond that, I agree with everything that you say. We can, however, get out of fighting him ourself by having Ritalia offering the Knight to 'talk us out of our challenge' after twisting his arm.

My point exactly. If we wants to duel Barrick than decline him saying that Knight's/Nobles can't duel Lowborn.

I think its his not being able to duel a lowborn that has him trying to duel a child.

EDIT: Back on the Keshlan war, we need generals and admirals to fight for us. We have none of either, and we're not good enough at strategy and logistics to command an entire invasion fleet. Varick is OK for a captain of a mercenary company and Sir Bepher can captain a single ship but I don't think either have the chops to adequately be responsible for the many thousands of men this invasion will require.

[3man75]

Andres i may have written out of my mind without thinking (or spoke without thinking).

What i meant is that WE need to have our one and only goal be resumed trade and maybe "nationalizing" the spice trade that the concubine has. That second one should be a side objective of course but well a bonus if possible, that's all.

Again what i want is a letter to sokolov indicating that a good naval presence would be greatly appreciated by whiever of the two sides we help be they imperials or reformist.

Reformist sounds better simply because it looks like they have SOME magic power and hopefully a decent navy. Maybe they're lands are small but little by little. Also Andres i honestly don't care if after the lords decide to have independance, i just want trade and our wallet to grow. Oh and the prestige from "winning" a war by proxy.

We should also have a meeting with Sokolov and his guildmates about putting together a plan with goals. you know like take strategic islands here, choke these points, and take out important leadership there. Also subterfuge may be a bad idea but...it'd be nice if the head wizard that killed the Emperor was offed and the rebels collapse in a civil war to decide who should be the new #1 leader. Something to think about or maybe take out his home base and capture/execute him? The sooner hes dead the quicker his factions melts.

Also i disagree since it also feels like he doesn't want to duel us. "i don't want to bleed a child" were his words and this could simply be him not knowing annalysian culture/dueling rules. Or maybe he thought he could just mow us over, i wonder if he's regretting what he's done? Who knows but lets talk to barrick about this guy and see if he has any prominent weaknesses that could help us. Other than that prepare for a first blood match and try to not die. Honor is meaningless in death.

An again asking our sister about getting him to leave barrick with us. maybe she can melt the heart of the best so to speak?

[Andres]

I agree with most everything there but for a couple of things. First, that we should kill the wizard (sorry Mlamlah, we know he's a sea mage and not a wizard, but wizard sounds better) to end the war. I think it would be better if we keep him in custody until the end of the war so that the new Emperor of Keshla could execute him. We should try to capture him only if he surrenders. If he's personally fighting us, we kill him. If he's been fighting us (personally, again) and now that he's about to lose, we kill him (it's probably a feint).

The other issue is the idea that Gerand doesn't know about blood duels. It seemed to me that his choice of words was just flavour text, and that he believes he'll steamroll us. We'll be wearing armour though, so a mortal wound is unlikely, and based on his words he might not go full-out in attacking us, which would be very advantageous.

We should also have a meeting with Sokolov and his guildmates about putting together a plan with goals. you know like take strategic islands here, choke these points, and take out important leadership there.

+1. But we should get some generals/admirals in the talk as well and not until after we come back. It's going to be a very busy next few days and the invasion probably won't happen for a while.

When did we get Amateur in Sleight of Hand? Even when I was reading the updates it felt like it just kinda popped out of nowhere. I'm guessing I just missed the part where we got it.