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[RedWarrior0]

I think the best form of government is achieved by glassing the Earth.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So I ran into a very interesting concept recently. Liquid Democracy, also called Delegative Democracy and Representative Direct Democracy, seems like something we should have thought of a long time ago.

Essentially, it works as such:

-Everyone gets a vote, as in direct democracy.

-However, you can also delegate your vote out on certain subjects to other people, who would take the place of traditional politicians by weighing the issues and voting as a profession. Your delegation can be total, partial, or on specific subjects. The delegate votes with their vote and all the votes that have been given to them on the subject.

-You can remove your delegation at any time, for any reason. If you really want to, you can never delegate and vote on everything directly.

I think this is an excellent idea. It means that the power of politicians is directly correlative to how good of a job they are doing, and they can never just take your support and then screw you over as in representative democracy, because then everyone who is unsatisfied will undelegate.  It simultaneously solves the problem of uninformed voting, as if you do not feel qualified enough to vote on an issue you can give it to a professional of your choice, and only for that specific issue.

Apparently, this system is currently used internally by the German Pirate Party, and it has worked quite well for them.

[10ebbor10]

It's however, a bureaucratic nightmare, and quite susceptible to fraud.

Also, it's in the politician's interest to keep the people dumb. After all, if the people don't know they're doing a bad job, they won't change their votes. Media would become rather important.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Also, it's in the politician's interest to keep the people dumb. After all, if the people don't know they're doing a bad job, they won't change their votes. Media would become rather important.

You seem to be implying that this is not already the case. Under this system, politicians would actually be harmed by such behavior, while under the existing one they only have to do a good job around election time.

[kaian-a-coel]

This system would probably be an improvement over traditional democracy, but yet again, we run into the "dumb voters" problem. This system is near perfect when the voters are smart, but with the current humanity it would sucks in every possible way.
People would delegate to conmen and never undelegate. People would undelegate good guys over demagogic ones because they won't distinguish circumstances from responsibilities, and won't see long term.

Every possible form of government, ever, will suck, until humanity get smart enough to basically stop needing one.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

This system would probably be an improvement over traditional democracy, but yet again, we run into the "dumb voters" problem. This system is near perfect when the voters are smart, but with the current humanity it would sucks in every possible way.

People are smarter than you are giving them credit for. Especially considering "gosh, democracy is so great, but I wish all the other people weren't so dumb" is probably the most common complaint there is.

People would delegate to conmen and never undelegate. People would undelegate good guys over demagogic ones because they won't distinguish circumstances from responsibilities, and won't see long term.

Said in the face of a system that, even when it does not follow the will of the people in real-time and is easily corrupted by money, still mostly elects non-demagogs.

Every possible form of government, ever, will suck, until humanity get smart enough to basically stop needing one.

I cannot stand this simplistic, unrealistic "everything is shit" view of things. The condition of the world and government in general has improved significantly as time has passed.

[misko27]

Every possible form of government, ever, will suck, until humanity get smart enough to basically stop needing one.

This is true to some small extent, but the inevitable and logical conclusion is suicide.


Some humans are mostly good, some are mostly bad, most are in between, and there are a few rare ones on the edges. To say that it's all the same is insane. The world, lives in the marginal differences. All the difference in the world between say, you and Hitler, and you and Gandhi, and everyone else. Sure, they are all capable of the same emotions, the same thoughts, but it's the differences in to what degree, proportion, and schedule that make up who they and we are.


Intelligence is an entirely separate issue. Never confuse Intelligence with Decency. Both are important. An government ruled only by Intelligent, Moral men would be ideal. The question is how.

Every possible form of government, ever, will suck, until humanity get smart enough to basically stop needing one.

I cannot stand this simplistic, unrealistic "everything is shit" view of things. The condition of the world and government in general has improved significantly as time has passed.

This. Life was, enormously shittier when we started from where we are now. Hell, even the worst parts are still better off.

[alexandertnt]

I would have to agree with an AI as being the best ruler. Except I would like the AI to be designed to explain a course of action and its purpose logically, so we understand what we are doing and why insted of blindly doing what it tells us to.

I cannot stand this simplistic, unrealistic "everything is shit" view of things. The condition of the world and government in general has improved significantly as time has passed.

I agree with this. Whilst all governing (and non-governing) systems have their flaws, the fact is that some are better than others, and some can even be pretty good.

[sackhead]

I would have to agree with an AI as being the best ruler. Except I would like the AI to be designed to explain a course of action and its purpose logically, so we understand what we are doing and why insted of blindly doing what it tells us to.

I cannot stand this simplistic, unrealistic "everything is shit" view of things. The condition of the world and government in general has improved significantly as time has passed.

I agree with this. Whilst all governing (and non-governing) systems have their flaws, the fact is that some are better than others, and some can even be pretty good.

on the point about government improving i am going to have to agree with Churchill when he said "It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
i t might not be perfect but it is still bloody good.

on the AI my problem with it is no matter how logical it is logic and compassion often contradict each other. take Star Trek for example who would you rather follow Kirk or Spock. logically the take one life to save many is perfectly reasonable but from a compassionate  veiw it is horrible.

[Another]

I think that the role of federal auditors and prosecutors could be fulfilled by reasonably advanced AI quite well. In adversarial court opinion of prosecution is balanced by efforts of defence side and human judges would have the final word in each case.

What could go wrong with this one? Can the flaws be remedied by additional mechanisms to make the whole system net positive?

[alexandertnt]

logically the take one life to save many is perfectly reasonable but from a compassionate  veiw it is horrible.

It would be even more compassionately-horrible to let many die to save one.

Situations like these still have logical and appropriate solutions, its just that the best solution is not necessarily a good one.

[guessingo]

US probably would be better off going back to the queen hat in hand and asking her to take us back. So many fellow americans are so infatuated with the royal family.

[GlyphGryph]

MSH, Liquid Democracy is something I've long been a proponent off (after my professional voter system). It seems like a clear improvement overt the current situation. In fact, my ideal system would be a combination of the two - where large scale executive offices are filled by professional voting pools, and legislative decisions are managed by delegation of individual votes (with lower executive positions decided by the votes of what is basically a 100% voting pool).

It does have some flaws, but to be honest those flaws are similar to the ones we experience now but less serious.

I would very, very much like to see it replace some of our lower level systems in the US, and I would support a movement trying to accomplish that.

[Graknorke]

US probably would be better off going back to the queen hat in hand and asking her to take us back. So many fellow americans are so infatuated with the royal family.

Maybe then she'd have power over something other than whether or not to be inside.

[Jafferey]

Aristotle said he thought Monarchy was the best form of government.