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Author Topic: Order of the Stick  (Read 575611 times)

SOLDIER First

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4245 on: June 26, 2021, 03:41:58 pm »

It could also be that she doesn't expect her plan to work - maybe that she can't defeat the Order and expects them to destroy the last Gate - but is going through with it anyway for whatever reason. Resigned, exhausted determination seems to fit her in my opinion.
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Kagus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4246 on: June 26, 2021, 05:43:01 pm »

Really? I... Don't really see that. Exhausted and determined, yes, absolutely. But I quite don't see the paladin-taunting rogue as being the one to resolutely resign themselves to carrying out a hopeless and suicidal plan because they feel it's the morally correct one.

There's gotta be that glimmer of hope, the shot at beating the system. She's cooking up something, and I'm rather certain that she hasn't revealed the truth of it to her guests.

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4247 on: June 28, 2021, 12:45:33 am »

How about her carrying out a hopeless and suicidal plan not because it is the morally correct one, but because if she dies during it, she will still be better off than if the world gets eaten by Snarl.
She might not be expecting the gods to kill everyone themselves, thus saving their souls.

From what she knows, if she suceeds, the world won't end. If she dies, she goes into the proper afterlife. If she does nothing, she could be eaten by Snarl and her soul immediatly destroyed.
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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4248 on: June 28, 2021, 09:33:55 am »

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Kagus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4249 on: June 28, 2021, 10:00:30 am »

...


...what

Okay, so... What looks like a beholder, has paralyzing and antimagic eye rays like a beholder, but obviously isn't a beholder because those are too intrinsically paranoid-megalomaniacal to cooperate with anyone, let alone take orders from anyone? Not to mention being spawned into existence by the power of dreams and as such wouldn't really have a life stage where they'd be able to form a bond with a parent figure.

A mimic I can sorta get, they have a sentient INT score and a neutral alignment... It could theoretically be possible to befriend/tame one if you really had a knack for such and found a way to communicate with it.

But a beholder? There's gotta be something fucky going on.

MorleyDev

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4250 on: June 28, 2021, 10:33:55 am »

The beholder called them "mom", so I'm guessing it's one of those "created them from their own dreams and raised them" scenarios? Or from a friends dreams, but they 'raised' them?

Also a 'ooh totes evil creature by nature' like a beholder not being completely evil fits with OoTS style.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2021, 10:35:55 am by MorleyDev »
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Mephansteras

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4251 on: June 28, 2021, 12:14:47 pm »

Eh, Beholders have a vast, vast array of varieties and sub-types and whatnot. They are a monster that gets played around with a lot over the various editions and settings.

So I don't think it's all that surprising that OOTS would do something unusual with them.
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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4252 on: June 28, 2021, 12:21:16 pm »

There's a beholder variant with neutral alignment ("Observers"), but the situation here is almost certainly just more of "we were friends". Don't do paladin logic kids, it'll rot your brain!
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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4253 on: June 28, 2021, 12:45:44 pm »

I guess Haley never called.
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SOLDIER First

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4254 on: June 28, 2021, 02:35:13 pm »

[...] but obviously isn't a beholder because those are too intrinsically paranoid-megalomaniacal to cooperate with anyone, let alone take orders from anyone?

This is the Order of the Stick universe. Beholders can act however the Giant wants them to.
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TD1

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4255 on: June 28, 2021, 02:53:23 pm »

With obligatory ironic references to the source material.
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Kagus

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4256 on: June 28, 2021, 03:07:06 pm »

The beholder called them "mom", so I'm guessing it's one of those "created them from their own dreams and raised them" scenarios? Or from a friends dreams, but they 'raised' them?

Also a 'ooh totes evil creature by nature' like a beholder not being completely evil fits with OoTS style.

They're born from the dreams of other beholders though, not just any creature. And generally in a fully-grown state, as it's basically a manifestation of the dreamer's concept of a beholder (such as themselves). Looking it up though, there does appear to be a slightly more "conventional" form of asexual reproduction available to them, and seeing as the progenitor either eats or rejects all but (at most) one of the brood, that would open things up for being discovered and raised by our good friend Serini.

...however, this doesn't necessarily dodge the issue with their temperament.

It's not that beholders are "Alignment = Evil, therefore bad", it's that they are specifically described as being singularly xenophobic, narcissistic, and paranoid. So, basically all the traits one would look for in someone you want to befriend.

Beholders are perfectly capable of being not-diabolically-evil. They'll just hole up somewhere remote and keep perpetually building and reinforcing their lair's defenses in preparation of the imminent attack from all sides that is totally going to happen, because nobody and nothing can be trusted. But cooperating with anyone that they don't view as either a close enough representation of themselves (the perfect entity) or a slave they can keep contained and controlled is... Kinda the one specific thing that they're made to not do.


And yes, there are indeed a great many varieties of beholder or beholder-kin. Some, like observers, are indeed noted as having less-antisocial personalities than true eye tyrants.

...and just about all of them are readily distinguishable from eye tyrants by their body features. Sunny isn't an observer, because they only have one central eye + mouth. They're not a spectator either (specifically mentioned as being "known to form friendships with other creatures, a trait that no other beholderkin or true beholder ever displayed"), because they have more than four eyestalks.

Curiously, though... Sunny doesn't appear to really be any variant I'm familiar with. They possess all the characteristics of a standard eye tyrant, except that they only appear to have eight eyestalks instead of ten.


I suppose it's theoretically possible that a true eye tyrant dreamt of a "wrong" version of themselves that was possessed of disgusting and weak qualities like empathy, respect, and deference (and additionally being impure of form enough to only have eight stalks), but that raises the question as to how it wasn't immediately slaughtered by its dreamer as an abomination. I guess she just showed up at the right place at the right time, immediately understood that this new beholder was different, and managed to imprint upon it and scurry away before the original woke up or just backstabbed the hell out of mommy dreamest before making away with the kidball.


So, really, the only reasonable explanation so far is that this is indeed O.C. Donut Steele.

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4257 on: June 28, 2021, 03:31:33 pm »

Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty obviously just that beholders don't work how they do in the generic D&D setting, probably don't need to think about it too hard  :P
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andrea

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4258 on: June 28, 2021, 03:32:13 pm »

Beholders are intellectual property of the Wizards of the Coast and as such can't be shown in the comic. (Proof!)
This is clearly an eye stalker, a 9 pupil fox, or whatever have you. Compared to the more famous beholder, they can have nicer personalities and can have mommies.


But really, this comic hasn't tried to be faithful to the details of D&D in a long time

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Re: Order of the Stick
« Reply #4259 on: June 28, 2021, 04:00:45 pm »

Beholders are intellectual property of the Wizards of the Coast and as such can't be shown in the comic. (Proof!)
This is clearly an eye stalker, a 9 pupil fox, or whatever have you. Compared to the more famous beholder, they can have nicer personalities and can have mommies.


But really, this comic hasn't tried to be faithful to the details of D&D in a long time

Now that you mention it I wonder how Illwinter got away with using illithids in its games without getting fire from WoC´s legal team.
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