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[NAV]

Throw your sword Roy!

[Rolan7]

Warning, donning tin-foil hat

Spoiler: Just to be safe even though there's no way this'll happen (click to show/hide)

I want to guess that Belkar got vamped off panel and not-Belkar shows up and saves the day.  It might be possible.  Apparently vampires here create new vampires, not mere thralls as the SRD states.  They do seem automatically bound to their creator's will though, like thralls.  There's a limit on that:  A vampire can only have thralls up to twice their HD.  At which point thralls start gaining free will.

So if a bunch of lowish-level vamped clerics overwhelmed Belkar, it's possible that he'd end up as a free-willed vampire (if the final drainer was half his level).  "Too badass to be a thrall", or such.

...Oh shit, the prophecy

Edit:  To be clear, he'd be "free-willed" but not Belkar.  It'd be just like Durkon's current state, but with the vampire soul provided by a different god.  Presumably one who wants to preserve the world...  Loki seems likely.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Warning, donning tin-foil hat

Spoiler: Just to be safe even though there's no way this'll happen (click to show/hide)

I want to guess that Belkar got vamped off panel and not-Belkar shows up and saves the day.  It might be possible.  Apparently vampires here create new vampires, not mere thralls as the SRD states.  They do seem automatically bound to their creator's will though, like thralls.  There's a limit on that:  A vampire can only have thralls up to twice their HD.  At which point thralls start gaining free will.

So if a bunch of lowish-level vamped clerics overwhelmed Belkar, it's possible that he'd end up as a free-willed vampire (if the final drainer was half his level).  "Too badass to be a thrall", or such.

...Oh shit, the prophecy

Edit:  To be clear, he'd be "free-willed" but not Belkar.  It'd be just like Durkon's current state, but with the vampire soul provided by a different god.  Presumably one who wants to preserve the world...  Loki seems likely.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a different angle. Vampires in OOtS seem to be spiritual beings that are shaped by the void of hatred and evil that even good people have some amount of. But Belkar...is already Chaotic Evil.

[Culise]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, a minor issue is that they do create thralls of their spawn.  Malack intended to release Durkon after the Girard's Gate incident concluded but died before that could happen, which had the same net effect.

[Rolan7]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Right, but if the vampire who turns Belkar is less than half Belkar's level, they won't be able to have him as a thrall.  Not-Belkar will instantly go free-willed.

The tricky bit is, by SRD, a vampire creates Vampire Spawn creatures.  Never full vampires.  Vampire Spawns can't make more spawns, either.

Clearly that's not the case here, since Not-Durkon is a full vampire.  But the rules for how many HD of thralls may still apply.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a different angle. Vampires in OOtS seem to be spiritual beings that are shaped by the void of hatred and evil that even good people have some amount of. But Belkar...is already Chaotic Evil.

Reminds me of Black Mage
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/

[RedWarrior0]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Right, but if the vampire who turns Belkar is less than half Belkar's level, they won't be able to have him as a thrall.  Not-Belkar will instantly go free-willed.

The tricky bit is, by SRD, a vampire creates Vampire Spawn creatures.  Never full vampires.  Vampire Spawns can't make more spawns, either.

Clearly that's not the case here, since Not-Durkon is a full vampire.  But the rules for how many HD of thralls may still apply.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a different angle. Vampires in OOtS seem to be spiritual beings that are shaped by the void of hatred and evil that even good people have some amount of. But Belkar...is already Chaotic Evil.

Reminds me of Black Mage
http://www.nuklearpower.com/2005/10/18/episode-613-mirror-master/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sure they do, with the bite attack. However, that does take time to rise after burial.

[Zangi]

Spoiler: Belkar (click to show/hide)

He was thrown out.  It is unlikely for him to be incapacitated anywhere near a vampire.  And if he does encounter one, after coming back, I'm betting on the short guy.

[Rolan7]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sure they do, with the bite attack. However, that does take time to rise after burial.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh shoot, I misread.  Yeah, a victim becomes a full vampire if they had 5+ HD.  Otherwise, they become a vampire spawn.
Vampire spawns still can't vamp people, but still my mistake.

More fun facts I just learned from re-reading...
Vampires and spawn don't have bite attacks, technically.  (They drain blood in a grapple, though, presumably with their teeth)
By SRD they never need to feed, it just deals CON damage and gives them temporary HP.  Pretty sure Libris Mortis rectifies that though.
The blood-drain ability actually can't create new vampires/spawn!  To do that, a full vampire has to kill with the *energy drain*.  And yeah, rises in 1-4 days.
Spawn have the drain too, but cannot create spawn.  This means that a victim they kill with energy drain doesn't become a vampire...  It becomes a *wight*.  Nothing on the Vampire page mentions this, but it's a default effect of negative levels.  The wight is probably free-willed.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels

And lastly...  The rises in 1d4 days thing is actually the comic.  Malack just had a custom spell to hasten it.  Maybe Durkon does too?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html

[hops]

As much as I want to see Belkar Tepes, I don't think Durkula wpuld have vamped him, seeing as he threw him off the cliff to get him out of the way.

[Rolan7]

And the thralled priests probably don't have the hasten-undeath spell Malack had, yeah.

[Culise]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Oh shoot, I misread.  Yeah, a victim becomes a full vampire if they had 5+ HD.  Otherwise, they become a vampire spawn.
Vampire spawns still can't vamp people, but still my mistake.

More fun facts I just learned from re-reading...
Vampires and spawn don't have bite attacks, technically.  (They drain blood in a grapple, though, presumably with their teeth)
By SRD they never need to feed, it just deals CON damage and gives them temporary HP.  Pretty sure Libris Mortis rectifies that though.
The blood-drain ability actually can't create new vampires/spawn!  To do that, a full vampire has to kill with the *energy drain*.  And yeah, rises in 1-4 days.
Spawn have the drain too, but cannot create spawn.  This means that a victim they kill with energy drain doesn't become a vampire...  It becomes a *wight*.  Nothing on the Vampire page mentions this, but it's a default effect of negative levels.  The wight is probably free-willed.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#energyDrainAndNegativeLevels

And lastly...  The rises in 1d4 days thing is actually the comic.  Malack just had a custom spell to hasten it.  Maybe Durkon does too?
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0878.html

I think we can set aside spoilers for a rules discussion.  In any case, I believe it's the other way around if I'm reading the SRD correctly.  The victim who is drained (type of drain unspecified) to zero CON revives as a vampire if they have 5 or more Hit Dice.  Of the two types of drain, Blood Drain reduces the victim's CON, while Energy Drain causes negative levels but does not directly affect CON.  As well, a victim of Energy Drain (explicitly specified) will only revive as a vampire spawn after 1d4 days; that method does not permit full vamps.

[Rolan7]

I don't think the blood drain counts:

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining.  Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...).  Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.

...  Heheh, it would work against plant enemies.  Drink their sap!  The target just needs to be alive.  So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too.  Drink a water elemental!  Nibble an earth elemental!

Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)

[Culise]

I don't think the blood drain counts:

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

Energy drain is a specific ability, different from blood draining.  Blood draining shouldn't even create a wight I don't think, since it's just an ability that deals CON damage (presumably due to bloodloss, but...).  Death ward wouldn't help against it either, it's not negative energy.

...  Heheh, it would work against plant enemies.  Drink their sap!  The target just needs to be alive.  So, wait... Haha, elementals are totes alive too.  Drink a water elemental!  Nibble an earth elemental!

Only undead and constructs know peace from this horror
(Sadly, only humanoids and monstrous humanoids can actually get vamped though)

I base my understanding based on the following two passages from the full text of both the Blood Drain and Create Spawn abilities, emphasis mine.

A vampire can suck blood from a living victim with its fangs by making a successful grapple check. If it pins the foe, it drains blood, dealing 1d4 points of Constitution drain each round the pin is maintained. On each such successful attack, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points.

A humanoid or monstrous humanoid slain by a vampire’s energy drain rises as a vampire spawn 1d4 days after burial.

If the vampire instead drains the victim’s Constitution to 0 or lower, the victim returns as a spawn if it had 4 or less HD and as a vampire if it had 5 or more HD. In either case, the new vampire or spawn is under the command of the vampire that created it and remains enslaved until its master’s destruction. At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn. A vampire that is enslaved may create and enslave spawn of its own, so a master vampire can control a number of lesser vampires in this fashion. A vampire may voluntarily free an enslaved spawn in order to enslave a new spawn, but once freed, a vampire or vampire spawn cannot be enslaved again.

"Instead," in this case, should be taken as a contrast to the immediately preceding line, and by implication the use of energy drain (which as noted, does not affect CON directly).  But yes, anything with a CON score could theoretically be affected.  You are correct, however, that without the second half of the Create Spawn ability, a CON drain would not create anything by RAW.  That's likely why particular rules for that case were included in the Vampire's abilities, and also why they were not included with the Vampire Spawn abilities. 
...
Hmmm, such a shame constructs don't have CON scores. and that restriction on humanoid and monstrous humanoid base creature exists.  Vampiric modrons... :3

[Rolan7]

 
Yeah I totally misread the text of Create Spawn repeatedly.  Thanks! (:
(Sorry for making so many posts about this, I kinda enjoy discussing rules like this!)

[Culise]

Sure thing.  I find it fun as well, and I learned some interesting stuff as well, including the restrictions on the vampire template.  Actually, the best implication of this rule isn't even that.  By RAW, because spawn creation doesn't specify the use of Blood Drain in particular at all, any ability score drain that attacks CON specifically will trigger it as long as the vampire is the source.  Blood Drain is the only template-specific way to deal CON damage, but any CON-damaging poison or spell would do the trick just as effectively.